Rules for 4 January 2005

The Rules for Tuesday, January 4, 2005

taut bowstrings wih some RA ruling needed

I need a ruling concerning Action Card "Taut Bowstrings" and some personalities.

Taut Bowstrings (WoC) "Reaction: Play before one of your target Followers or Items bows to produce a ranged attack or as part of a combined ranged attack. That card need not bow. Reaction: Play after a unit moves into a Province or before a unit leaves a Province to make a ranged attack targeting it from your opposing cards in that Province. Your cards need not bow to produce this attack."

Now, usually RAs are Battle actions, but sometimes they are Reactions. Moto Latomu has such ability, Moto Latomu exp gives it to others, and Shosuro Tsuyoshi has one compared against Chi. My question is, can I use second ability of TB with such RAs? I would say yes, basing on RAs description on page 90 in rulebook, but I'm not sure.

The only snag I see in that under page 90 of the Rulebook, it says that for Combined Ranged Attacks: "must all be the same type, and the cards must all be able to make a ranged attack at that time and at the intended target."

Taut bowstrings gets around the "at the same time" part by letting everyone shoot out of turn, but not the "same type" part. You'd need all "Reaction" RAs or all "Battle" RAs, but you could not make a combined RA of "Reaction" ability Ranged Attacks and "Battle" ability Ranged Attacks. Also, keep an eye out on your targets, since many Reaction Ranged Attacks target something that has to do with their Trigger, and their Trigger may not be met when Taut Bowstrings lets them shoot out-of-turn.

Comparing against Chi isn't a problem. The Combined Ranged Attack picks up all such special properties from its individual parts. If you combine a Chi comparison RA with a regular RA, the Combined Ranged Attack is compared against Chi.

taut bowstrings wih some RA ruling needed

I would say no you can not. Based on the fact that those Ranged attacks, specifically Latomu, are not legal to play at that time.

The problem with that argument (and I've had it with Jeff before now, with me on that end) is that BATTLE Ranged Attacks aren't legal to play at that time. You can't normally play Battle Actions as Reactions to anything, so playing them as Taut Bowstrings makes you do is already out-of-turn.

RULES questions

1. Can chi penalty tokens kill moto ogedei because the chi penalty is comming from a token and not a card?

The Web of Lies Rules sheet addresses some of this in the bottom left corner:

"Any card or action that creates a token is considered just as much the source of all the token's immediate effects as the token itself is. For example, an action that creates a +1F token on a Personality is treated as an action that creates a Force bonus."

Ogedei says, "Ogedei's Chi may not be reduced by effects from cards other players own."

Comparing the two, it would seem to me that if an opponent's card created the Chi Penalty Token, it would not change Ogedei's Chi, since the effect is considered to be from the source of the Token.

2. Weigh the cost: Can I send home an unopposed attacking unit and lower my opponents province strength (the and seems to imply I need to have an opposing unit to target)?

It says, "You may target." You don't have to have an opposing Personality to play the card. The -3F effect will fail. All other effects resolve normally.

3. shinjo suboto: Can you bring suboto in while defending without paying his gold cost or can you only use his ability while attacking?

You can bring him in for free if you are the Defender.

Shosuro/Egg

Is Shosuro's reaction considered an 'entering play effect'?

No. It is an Action, not an effect, and its effects are those of an Action, not "entering play."

I'm wondering specifically if you can duplicate this reaction when an Egg of P'an Ku comes into play copying Shosuro.

Yes, I've fielded this question before.

The Egg enters play. After it enters play it copies Shosuro's card. Since it is - still - "after entering play" timing, you can use any "after entering play" Reaction Abilities you may have just gained from copying.

Rules bowed challanging

I'm hearing all strange things about bowed personalities able to duel if they didn't make the duel.

Strange things?

The Rulebook says that Personalities that are bowed can't Perform Actions that issue challenges or Cast Spells. There is no rule anywhere that says bowed Personalities can't issue challenges. They simply can't Perform Actions that cause someone (including themselves) to do so. They can still be themselves made to issue a challenge by an Action like that on Doji Saori or Temple of the Ninth Kami which the bowed Personality is not Performing the Action himself.

The Rulebook also outlines how to decide when someone is Performing the Action or not on page 71. Remember to read the part where it says to use the - first - rule on the list that applies (not - all - the rules on the list that apply).

I have Kakita bowed in play. My Saori bows for her duel and targets a duelist, Kakita. Is this legal? or should Kakita be straightenend.

Completely legal.

Saori is the Personality on which the Action resides, so SHE performs the Action. That's Rule #1 on the Performing List, so that's who is performing the Action. Do not pass "Go," do not collect US$200.00. You never get to ANY of the Rules under which Kakita could Perform the Action (rules 3 and 4).

This looks to be a case of players confusing their short-hand explanations "bowed Personalities can't challenge" with the - actual rules - "Bowed Personalities can't perform Actions that issue challenges."

Issueing while Bowed?

Ok, I understand what you mean detailing Saori, etc. however, What about things like Gozoku Pawn, or Temple of the ninth kami that can target bowed personalities. Can I target someone with Gozoku Pawn and make them issue a duel even though they are bowed??

The Rules for determining who Performs an Action, on page 71 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook, that could make the challenging Personality perform such an Action all explicitly state that the Personality must you "yours" (meaning under your Control for things printed prior to Dawn of the Empire - in this case the Diamond Edition Rulebook itself). Your opponent's personalities don't qualify as "your Personality" for these criteria.

So, no, the Challenger does not Perform Gozoku Pawn or Temple of the Ninth Kami's Actions.

That should cover everything for Tuesday, January 4, 2005. If I missed your question, please repost if with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.