Rules for 5 October 2004

Your Rules for Tuesday, October 5, 2004

Shosuku Sensei + Kolat Assassin

I am a Mantis Player with Shosuku Sensei. I have 10 Family Honor. I have played a Kolat Assassin.

After it I will have:

a) 4 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat plus 2 from Shosuku Sensei b) 6 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat. The Sensei make Honor losses when "you lose Honor from one of your other cards", and the Kolat is never in play and then isn't "one of YOUR other cards"

The answer is B. Kolat Assassin does not enter play, so you can not control it, thusly it can not be "your card."

Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored

This will be my last post on the topic.

Anything that affects a card's cost happens before or during the "pay costs" step . Anything that refers to a card entering play happens after, as that trigger does not exist until the cost is satisfied. I don't see an inconsistency.

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OK, doesn't that mean that because the gain honor part of the rule references before comming into play, that it would happen after paying costs, therefore you would have to make the decision for how much to pay and by implication to gain honor before actually gaining the honor.

Yes. That matches what I said earlier in the post you quote.

And would it not be that choice (not the honor gain) which is made at the same time as the deathseeker choice? As I initially described?

No. That does not logically follow.

The decision whether to reduce the Personality's cost by 2 must be made while his cost is being paid, otherwise it wouldn't actually help buy him.

The Honor gain if this option is not exercised happens immediately before the Personality enters play, by rulebook text. The Personality does not enter play until after his cost has been fully paid, by fundamental game rules.

So, no, you don't gain Honor the moment you say "I'm not making him 2 Gold cheaper". By card and rulebook text, you gain Honor at the same time you decide whether to dishonor him from the Sensei, at a time when the Honor gain effect is locked in by an earlier decision.

Honestly if it was not designers intent, and it seems to me that it is the rule that is unclear on the order of bringing a dynasty card into play. Instead of making a bad ruling, would it not be better to just fix the rule?

Because it would be errata either way, and it is not clear that errata is necessary to govern the card's accidentally greater strength for the good of the game as a whole. The #1 rule of errata is that errata is worse than no errata. Period.

We don't have a glaring game balance issue. We have a direct and unambiguous answer straight from the rulebook. We don't need errata.

Strike with no Shadow.

The final sentence of this card,

"You may increase this card's Gold cost by 2 to shuffle it into your deck instead of discarding it after playing it."

is not an effect. It addresses how the card is played, much like the final sentence, "Play this card only if you have a Terrain in play for this battle." on Well Prepared. The templating rules still in place for Wrath of the Emperor sometimes place these sentences last on a card, which has created ambiguity here.

To get Strike with No Shadow to shuffle into your deck after you play it, the extra 2 Gold cost must be added while the card is being paid for.

Rules question - Units/Tokens & bowing

Do non-follower tokens in units stop them from being used for things like Direct Assault?

I would presume so as non-follower Tokens can't be bowed, but I'd like a little clarifcation about this.

A "unit" is defined as a Personality and all his or her attached - CARDS -. That does not include Tokens, unless the Tokens are also Cards. If the Tokens are Cards, they have a bowed / unbowed state while in play, just like every other card or stronghold.

As of Wrath of the Emperor, any Token that specifies a Card Type when created is itself a card. Follower Tokens and Item Tokens are the most common examples.

Thinks like "Fire Tokens" can not be bowed, but they are not considered to be part of the definition of "Unit" either, so they won't get in the way of paying the cost of Direct Assault.

That should cover everything for Tuesday, October 5, 2004. If I missed your question and it didn't have anything to do with Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct Subject Line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.