Rules for 4 October 2004

Your Rules for Monday, October 4, 2004

Pay for a sl card, and chi bonus to followers.

1/ Is paying for an action that bring a shadowland card into play, paying for a shadowland card ? ie : can Daigotsu Dojo pay for Jigoku Sensei ?

No. You are paying for an Ability on a Card that is Not Shadowlands. Daigotsu Dojo doesn't care about what that ability DOES, only that the card with the cost is Shadowlands - and Jigoku Sensei isn't, as per the Keyword Rule on Page 64 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook.

2/ Here is the situation : I have a suiteiru no oni with, say, five token from his action (1F Nonhuman Shadowlands Oni Follower tokens ). I play a Bloodspeaker Ambush... do my 1F followers become 2/+2 followers (thus giving my suiteiru +10 chi (+12 with the terrain)), or mere 2/2 followers (and suiteiru only gains 2 chi from the terrain) ?

Neither. They become 2F tokens.

Take a closer look at the part of the Rulebook that deals with unspecified stats - page 63 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook, first paragraph (italics):

"If something refers to a value that isn't specified or is missing, such as the Focus Value of a Follower token or the Gold cost of an Event, consider that value to be 0. Effects that try to change a value that a card does not normally possess fail - the value is always 0."

Your 1F Follower Token does not possess a Chi Value, so all attempts to raise its Chi Value fail. It always is considered to have 0 Chi.

Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored

It seems to me that the JA ruling from 2002 about not gaining honor if enter play dishonored implies that the choice to pay full or 2 less happens at the same time as the dishonor choice, but the effect of that choice (gaining honor)doesn't happen until later, which doesn't invalidate anything. It was in fact my initial basis for arguing that you do not gain the honor.

The decision whether to reduce the cost of an in-Faction Personality by 2 happens during the "pay costs" step, along with producing Gold and Reactions such as The Hiruma Dojo's. Honor is gained if this option is not taken by the time the player declares he is finished paying costs, since the gain is before the Personality enters play and the Personality can't enter play until he's been paid for.

In addition if bringing a dynasty card into play from a province were treated like any other action their would be a distinct procedure.

Announce Target (effectively uneccessary in most cases) Pay Cost Resolve

Now you pay cost including deciding to change cost before you resolve the effect of bringing a card into play and other ancilliary effects like gain honor if paid full for personality of your faction/Bow holdings/etc. And why should the dynasty phase have to have special rules that cause confusion like this instead of opperating just like everything else. The design team seems intrested in creating symetry in other aspects like the parallel of battle and duel resolution. Why not here as well?

Anything that affects a card's cost happens before or during the "pay costs" step . Anything that refers to a card entering play happens after, as that trigger does not exist until the cost is satisfied. I don't see an inconsistency.

Costs of Personalities and Fury of the Dark Lord

Question: For Fury of the Dark Lord, it targets personalities gold cost, not necessarly printed gold cost, correct?

No.

First, it does not target their cost costs. It references them, but it does not target. You never have to choose and it doesn't say "target" so it does not target.

Second, the card text states that it refers to "a printed Gold cost."

:Moshi Kekiesu + Shosuku senseï

Can I use the reaction of Shosuku senseï on a range attack performed by Moshi Kekiesu. I know it will not increase Kekiesu's range attack, but is it still legal to do this ?

Kekiesu says, "Bow Kekiesu for a Ranged 2 Attack that is compared against Chi and that may target a Personality with attached Followers. The strength of this ranged attack may not be increased."

Shosuku says, "Once per turn, increase the strength of one of your ranged attack targeting single card by 2. This attack bows its target instead of destroying it. Gain 2 Honor if the target bows."

Yes, it is still legal to do this, just as it is legal to play a Kolat Assassin if you are a Shadowlands Horde player. There is no reason for an Action to be illegal just because one EFFECT of an Action will be prevented. The strength increase is Negated and the other effects (bow instead of kill, gain 2 Honor if the target bows) resolve as normal.

Foo rule - Family Token

I was wondering if I could destroy the item "Family Token" with the spell Tengoku's Gate or move it with Sympathetic Energies, per the foo rule.

What is this "foo rule" of which you speak? I see no "foo rule." ;-)

I do see a Keyword Rule on page 64 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook, and it says:

"When something references a reserved game term (like "army," "Defender," "Infantry," "Sensei," or "Stronghold"), it does not apply to cards with those traits; it applies only to things that meet the term's definition.

"Token" is a reserved game term.

That should cover just about everything for Monday. If I missed your question not related to Dawn of the Empire, please try reposting it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct Subject Line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.