Rules for 6 October 2004

Your Rules for Wednesday, October 6, 2004

rules: Playing With Madness + Iuchiban Sensei

can the practioner of madness who was not a Bloodspeaker prior to the Kiho be straightened by Iuchiban Sensei. i think, yes. since the reaction on Iuchiban Sensei is decidedly after the action has resolved, at which point, the personality is a Bloodspeark who has just performed a Maho action.

Iuchiban Sensei says, "Reaction: Once per turn, after a Bloodspeaker Personality performs a Maho action straighten him."

Playing with Madness says, "Kiho Maho Limited: Bow one of your Shugenja. That Shugenja permanently gains +2F/+2C and the Shadowlands and Bloodspeaker traits, and permanently loses all current innate abilities."

OK, bear with me here. This one is a little complicated in the explanation. If you don't want the rules base behind it, but just the end result, skip down to the part I put in Asterisks * *.

First point: The Reaction on Iuchiban Sensei is not decidedly after the action has resolved. "Performed" has two criteria that must be met before it is considered to be true:

1.) The personality is considered to be "Performing" the Action as per the criteria on page 71 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook.

2.) It is after the action is properly Targeted and its Costs are paid, but before any Effects resolve.

If this case, Playing With Madness is "Performed" at the same time it is considered "Cast" and "Played" - before any Effects resolve, but after all costs are paid.

Second point: You are still "casting" or "performing" through the whole time of resolving all the immediate effects of the Action. This is why effects that give you a stat bonus while casting a Spell or Kiho continue are useful - if you have +2C while casting a Kiho (say with "Blessed Dojo"), you have +2C through the whole duel effect created by the "Facing Your Devils" Kiho. It is also why you keep "Monk" or "Shugenja" status all through the casting when using Hitomi Dojo or Bloodspeaker Sanctum.

Third point: Reactions have to be taken - immediately - upon coming to their trigger, or not at all. For example, when your opponent's Attack Phase ends, you must IMMEDIATELY play "Retribution" in response, or pass on your opportunity to React to that trigger for good. You can't, for instance, wait until your next Dynasty Phase or some other arbitrary point in time and THEN play "Retribution."

Now, all three of these points come together in how this play works out.

If your Personality were - already - a Bloodspeaker, the trigger for Iuchiban Sensei would be after the Action was successfully paid for, before any effects were generated. You would have to use Iuchiban Sensei then or not at all.

However, since your Personality is not a Bloodspeaker until that effect of Playing with Madness resolves, you don't have a valid trigger for the Reaction until that point. * Once your Personality gains the Bloodspeaker trait (and at the same time he's lost all his innate abilities, received +2/+2, and Shadowlands), you've met the Trigger for Iuchiban Sensei: you have a Bloodspeaker Personality who is Performing a Maho Action, and the Action is considered successfuly played. You must then immediately use Iuchiban Sensei to straighten him, or decline to use it at all. *

Keep in mind, this only works because the Shugenja gained the Bloodspeaker Trait while still performing the Maho Action. If the Shugenja cast a different Maho Kiho, finished resolving its immediate effects, and then afterwards gained the Bloodspeaker trait somehow, you could not straighten him - because he was never both Performing Maho and a Bloodspeaker at the same time.

Rules for 4 October 2004

Ok, then... Suiteiru no Oni's Token have no real chi, so they have always 0 chi.

Now, let's think of Skeletal Troops. If I have a Skeletal Troop in the current battle, and I play Bloodspeaker Ambush. Do my Skeletal Troop become a 3/2 Follower or a 3/+2 follower ?

If you give a 2F, 0C card a +1F, +2C bonus, it becomes a 3F, 2C card.

Cards only have a "+X" stat if they come with it printed (like most Weapons and Armor), or some effect says that they do. In the case of Skeletal Troops, neither condition is true, so they do not wind up with a Chi stat of "+2" but merely "2."

Deck search

When I search my deck for a specific card (EG with Boundless Sight), can I voluntarily fail to find a card? (EG Hida Kuon is the only guy left and I don't have his honour requirement this turn).

From the Rules for 8 March 2004, Jeff said:

"> Any card that says 'Search your deck':

May I voluntarily fail to find something that I am instructed to search for?

No. But generally, you may voluntarily find something you cannot play."

If I must find a card, how should this be policed?

If you need verification in a tournament, call a Judge.

: Goshyu no shiryo + Feign death.

First the cards :

Goshiu no Shiryo : Political Limited: Bow this Personality, who may then remain bowed, to target another Personality. Until Goshiu's Personality straightens or leaves play, the other Personality causes his or her controller to lose 2 Honor each time the Personality bows.

Feign Death : Reaction: Play after a Personality is destroyed to return the Personality to play, bowed, in his previous controller's home, ignoring all costs and restrictions. (Entering-play effects occur. Cards attached to the Personality are not returned to play.) Dishonor the Personality. Lose 2 Honor.

Now the question.

Let's say that I used the ability on the ancestor on a randomn personality (let's say Hida Bob). Hida Bobo dies, but one of the player decide that he shouldn't and plays a feign deayh on him. What happens, is Hida Bob considered to be bowing (and creating a two point honor loss to his controller) ?

"A card that is entering play bowed (e.g., holdings) or returning to play bowed (e.g., Glick) are not considered to "become bowed," because cards out of play or in the discard pile are not considered bowed. Thus, effects that respond to bowing (e.g., Corruption's Price) or prevent bowing (e.g., Inspiration) will not prevent a card from being bowed when entering or returning to play. [JA, 2 December 2002]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Bowing")

If it is any consolation, Bob is still under the gun from Goshiu until Goshiu straightens, even if Bob does leave play for a while.

And the question : When I put a Ratling Raider into play, do I have the oportunity to use Setai Sensei on the two ratling personalitys created by the Ratling Raiders ?

No. While you are considered to be bringing the cards into play, "Before" you bring them into play (create them), they simply don't exist, and things that don't exist can't be Dishonored or given -1F permanently.

That should cover everything from Wednesday, October 6, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the Flag [RULES] in your Distinct and Clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.