Rules for 8 September 2004

The Rules for Wednesday, September 8, 2004

Tadeji Sensei and Summon Earth Kami

If I am a Unicorn player playing with Tadeji Sensei, can an opponant create an Earth Kami token under my control?

'"Creating" is not considered "joining." [JA, 10 October 2000]' (Accumulated Rulings, "Joining and changing controllers."

The Personality is created under your control. It does not "join" you.

Many-Temple Master

If I overlay a Singular Peep A with the Many-Temple Master, he gains the Experienced Trait, does this include that he is now Experienced [A]? If so, am I able to bring another Singular Peep A into play?

No. He's just the Many-Temple Master, Experienced. Nowhere on his card does it say he gains the name of the Personality you overlay, nor any other trait but "Experienced."

Since you no longer control any Singular copies of [A], you can bring a Singular copy of [A] into play.

Hm, I've got to give that a try with Kakita Tamura some time ...

Many Temple Master (followup from 3 August, 04)

If he overlays a personality, he becomes Many Temple Master exp (not unique, but still singular). (In this example, MTM overlays a Shiba Fred and becomes MTM exp, experienced Shiba Fred.)

Why would he gain the trait "Experienced Shiba Fred." Many-Temple Master says it gains the "Experienced" trait, and nothing more. It can overlay Shiba Fred without being "Experienced Shiba Fred" because the card says that it can.

The card is still Many Temple Master, and is does not have "Shiba Fred" anywhere on its person.

1) Can another Many Temple Master then overlay a differently named personality for the same player? (MTM now overlays Isawa Joe.)

No. Many Temple Master doesn't lose the Singular Trait by overlaying. You still have a Singular Card named "Many Temple Master" in play.

While overlaying is not considered to be "bringing a card into play," you are nevertheless prohibited from overlaying if it would cause you to control 2 Unique cards with the same name or 2 Singular cards with the same name.

You can't overlay one copy of Shiba Tsukune nonexp with Tsukune XP1 and another with XP2 and have 2 unique copies of Shiba Tsukune in play. You can't pull the same trick with Many-Temple Master either.

Precedent: "Experienced and ExperiencedKYD cards are separate cards. Both may be in a deck, and neither impinges upon the other's uniqueness. (Only one Experience "path" may be in play at a time, however, just as only one copy of multiple Experience levels can be in play at at time.) For overlaying, ignore the KYD completely. [JA, 27 September 2002, 30 October 2002]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Experienced cards")

With that in mind, the other 3 questions are moot.

Rules for 3 September 2004

Comments Below:

I'd like to point out that the following goes directly against what Jeff said about the exact same situation back in gold, and I assume that Jeff takes precedence:

(http://www.deathseeker.com/email/2003/04/25/202934.shtml)

(25 April 2003) "

[MARTY] Yes, yes. It would only get +1 overall since it is one attack, which makes 3 + 3 + 1 = 7.

I was fixating too much on Performing vs. From and should have paid more attention to the math.

Various questions

Does Fushin have to be in the current battle to use his ability? In more general terms, does "this army" require the card to be there, as "this battle" does?

With no other references, "this army" would be the army Fushin is in. Fushin must be in an Army to use his ability.

Is there anything that prevents Moshi Kekiesu from shooting at followers (very effective, as they have 0 chi, usually)? Is there any restriction that prevents her from shooting provinces, using Castle of the Wasp?

She's very effective at shooting Followers. It is fair game.

She can reduce the Province's Strength with Castle of the Wasp. Castle of the Wasp changes the effect of the ranged attack. It is still a Strength 2 Ranged Attack.

The August 30 ruling from Marty now says that "Being put into play isn't an on-going effect". This re-opened the discussion whether Commanding Favor can be negated using Unexpected/Shrine of the Sun. Could you please give a clarification here? If there is another non-ongoing effect, I'd appreciate it if Zen could update the archive as well. Thanks Zen :) Uh, by the way: I think that drawing and discarding cards is also a non-ongoing effect, otherwise judges will get headaches when Unexpected Strike hits Imperial Ambassadorship :)

That's Zen's shtick, but I'll acknowledge the need to be thorough about such things. It might even belong in the FAQ or Lotus Rulebook, but that's a Jeff thing.

If Many-Temple Master overlayed some other personality, is it then possible to buy (not overlay) another MTM, as the first one is now Experienced, which makes them different versions, effectively?

No. Unique and Singular traits key off of names, Experience XYZ traits that mention names, and "Soul of ..." traits that mention names. You can't control separate copies of Toturi, Toturi XP, Toturi XP2, Toturi the First XP3, Toturi the First XP4, and Toturi XP3KYD at the same time because each one is Unique. Singular puts you under the same restriction, only you can ignore cards controlled by other players.

Is an overlayed MTM considered an "Experienced Shiba Bob", or just "Experienced MTM"?

He does not have the "Experienced Shiba Bob" trait on his card, no.

If MTM overlays a Singular personality, can another copy of that personality enter play for the same player?

Yes.

When a 0-Chi Agasha Seruma enters play from a province, can she use her reaction before the Chi death hits her?

No. The Rulebook's Effect of killing someone at 0 Chi happens before you can use Seruma's Reaction. It is at the speed of a Trait, which is faster than the speed of a Reaction. (Accumulated Rulings, "Timing")

Player HOT plays House of Tao. He borrows a Shadowlands oni from his opponent T9K and kills him. T9K plays Feign Death on the oni. - who looses the honor for entering play?

The Shadowlands Player. It is Negated.

- Does HOT looes his rings?

No. The Shadowlands player brings the card into play.

- Although the oni enters play on HOTs side, does T9K control it, or is control transfered automatically when something enters play in the oppoent's home?

Feign Death causes the card to enter play under the control of the prior controller. However, the person who plays Feign Death is the one who brings the card into play, and suffers any consequences for doing so, including entering-play honor-losses etc.

SOme question about setai sensei

What if I bring into play Ratling raider,Do the 2 Rat Personality became dishonored and gain deathseeker? What's their gold cost?

"Creating a card or token counts as bringing it into play. [JA, 5 October 2000]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Entering play")

You brought it into play. They get Dishonored or lose 1F permanently, just like Setai Sensei says.

Their gold cost is 0, since it is unspecified on their creation.

Asako Tsuruko

I wanted to know if it's possible to perform her reaction a second time after bringing her in play again for example with blood pit

You can always use Tsuruko's ability when you bring her into play, provided you can pay the cost of actually causing her to lose 2 full points of chi. If she has less than 2 Chi when you bring her into play, she can't pay that cost and you can't use her ability.

So, if you use her ability the first time she enters play, she'll have 1C. You need to find some way to raise her Chi to 2 the next time you want to use her ability.

Timing Question

Do those effects end simultaneously, or do they wear off one by one ?

The normally expire all at once. If (and only if) this would cause a timing conflict you can refer back to the Cardinal Rules for sequencing the process.

For instance, I have a Shi-Tien Yen-Wang Temple in play. On his turn, my opponent plays a Written in Blood targeting a 2C personality. react by using the Temple, giving the personality +1C until the end of turn. If both effects end at the same time, my personality won't die from having 0C at the end of the turn. But if they disappear separately, my opponent could choose to have the effects of the Temple ending first and thus killing my personality.

Typically, simultaneous expiration of bonuses and penalties does not cause any conflicts. You do not have a "timing conflict" just because doing things sequentially in one order would cause a person to die of Chi-Death. All bonuses and penalties in this example expire at the same time and the Personality lives. No player gets any say in the matter.

Egg + Feign Death

Situation: You have a unique personality who is Egg'ed. He dies, you want to play feign death.

Apparently it was ruled that you can't, because of uniqueness.

I was not aware of any such ruling. Feign Death says right on the card that you ignore any restrictions. Uniqueness and Singularity won't stop Feign Death.

That looks like everything from Wednesday, September 10, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.