Rules for 3 May 2004

Your Rules for Monday, May 3, 2004.

Overwhelmed + Turn of Fortune

Can I play an Overwhelmed, and then play Turn of Fortune and redirect my own destruction to another personality of mine in the battle?

[MARTY] Only if that Personality was a legal target in the first place.

If you had more than one Personality tied for the highest Force in your Army, you could redirect from one of these to another, but why didn't you choose that Personality in the first place?

Item tokens

Are you allowed to bow item tokens?

No.

"Only token Followers can bow. [Summary of other rulings]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Tokens")

Secluded Outpost + Emerald Armor [RULES]

If I have 2 Secl. Outposts that I use to pay for a Samurai and then after bringing said samurai into play, attach the Emerald Armor, can I then bring in a 7G Follower for free?

[MARTY] Those two Secluded Outposts effects aren't conflicting, so they don't have to be ordered. They both happen simultaneously after the Personality enters play.

You may attach zero, one, or two items / followers at the same time. Your follower and Emerald Armor will attach at the exact same time, so the Emerald Armor won't be in play in time to lower the cost of the follower.

Secluded Outpost + Emerald Armor [RULES]

Minimums are "hard" minimums, so it doesn't matte what order you do the reactions in, the follower will still cost one.

[MARTY] That isn't quite accurate.

If you have a continuous effect that gives the Stat of the Card in question a minimum, then it will apply at the end of all the calculations of reductions and increases if the number is below the minimum.

For this, you're looking for an effect like "All your X have a minimum [STAT] of Y."

A good example would be Ki-Rin's Shrine nonexperienced:

"While Ki-Rin's Shrine is in play, the Chi of your Personalities cannot be lowered below their Personal Honor, unless ..."

If you have an effect that reduces the Cost of the follower in question to a minimum, the minimum applies only to the application of that effect. Effects applied later can still force the number lower.

For this, you're looking for an effect like "Reduce the targets [STAT] by X, to a minimum of Y."

A good example would be Doom of Fu Leng:

"Bow this Shugenja and any number of your other Shugenja to permanently lower a target Personality's Chi by the number of Shugenja in this Ritual, to a minimum of 1."

The Ki-Rin's Shrine nonexperienced is a "Hard Minimum" while the Doom of Fu Leng is a self-contained minimum. You could follow up to Doom of Fu Leng with Written in Blood and reduce the Personality's chi to 0.

RULES

Question is in regard to last sentence, the way this card reads is the first target seems free, and you pay X1 for 2nd target, X2 for 3 targets and so on. Since it is a multiple based on the number of "other" Personalities targeted. Is this correct?

Your first target is the Courtier you targeted and bowed to perform the Action. You don't have to pay for her. That's all.

Razors Edge Dojo

So, is the discarding a cost or an effect in this case? If my opponent does not have any cards in his hand can he target one of my personalities if I'm playing RED?

[MARTY] The discard is an effect. The "must" on R.E.D. does not make it an additional cost in any way. You can still target even if you have no cards in hand.

{Question}

Can you bow a Moneylender with 0 gold tokens and a City of gold to produce 1 gold?

"Reaction: Bow City of Gold as a cost after you bow a Holding to produce Gold. City of Gold produces 1 Gold for the same payment."

Did you bow a holding to produce gold? That's the true question.

You certainly bowed Moneylender, but you didn't ever have a chance of producing any Gold. I'll forward this up the stream to Jeff, but I'm leaning strongly towards "no" on this one.

Dark Ring of Fire

Dark Ring of Fire says to play after winning a duel if you have won more than 1 duel this turn.

I had originally read this to mean that I could play it after winning my 3rd duel, but re-reading it, I think I can play this after winning just 2 duels in a turn.

Yes. You can play it after the second duel victory.

Also: How do I win an enlightenment victory?

Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Void. You need to have all 5 of the Elemental Ring cards in play. If you somehow got multiples of the same Ring into play it still only counts as one of the Elements.

Relentless Assault & Akodo Ieshige

Will Ieshige bow if I target him with relentless assult with my personality with Yu 3 or it will not affect him due to his trait to gain 1 force?

Ieshige will have his Force Bonus added before Relentless Assault applies its modified Fear effect against him. If that makes him 4F vs. Fear 3, he won't bow.

More Kuro's ???, sorry

So, what I'm hearing is shuggy bows and declares RA #1 of strength X at target A. After any modifiers, RA #1 resolves and if resolved strength X is < (shuggy's F + C) (and shuggy has more than 1 Chi), RA #2 of strength Y can be declared at target B, and so on and so forth. Do I have this right?

Pretty much. When you calculate for RA #2 though, you have to subtract RA #1's final strength from the shugenja's F + C.

This leads to another question. Given example shuggy 2/4, a RA of strength 4 is declared against me. Can I use Tsuruchi tech to boost it to 7, thereby taking it over the limit?

Yes, you may. Kuro's Fire restricts your decision making on picking the Strength of the RA when you declare it. Optional add-on effects that happen later are fine to play.

An earlier discussion was what happens to actions that are cancelled, and I assume this would qualify as being cancelled, so shuggy remains bowed and no RA takes place, correct?

No, this is not canceled. The effect has been modified, but it is too late to go back and change what you picked of anything. Just be aware of the adjusted strength, because if you go back to try and make another RA (even a Strength 0 RA) Kuro's Fire won't let you declare it, because your total is over the limit.

That looks like it covers everything from May 3rd that wasn't addressed in-thread. If I missed your question from this day, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line.

Thanks folks,