Rules for 26 April 2004

Rules for 26 April 2004

Question Kuro's fire

Say a Kuro's fire player declares a range 5 attack on a 5 force personality. I react with outer walls making the range attack into a strength 3 attack.

A. Can the kuros fire player go back and adjust their range attack so it hits the personality?

No. By the time Outer Walls can be played, you're way past the declaration step and can't back up.

B. Will the range attack resolve as a range 3 attack... counting for 3 points of kuros fire and one for kuro's fire.

Yes. It will produce a Ranged 3 Attack when resolving its effect.

Kuni Tansho [RULES]

Can anyone confirm or deny whether Kuni Tansho has been MRP/Errated yet again?

Kuni Tansho was Errata'd before Diamond hit the shelf. This is the MRP of her card with that Errata incorporated.

You'll also find an MRP'd Koto and a brand new Diamond-bugged "Overconfidence" in various Hidden City starters, if I heard correctly.

Call to Arms

Can Call to Arms be used when a player uses Retribution?

Given any attack phase has a declaration segment, a maneuvers segment, an action segment, and finally a resolution segment, then the attack phase created by Retribution should be enough to trigger Retribution, right?

You are correct, sir.

The Legions Charge

Note, "actions" are not capitalized.

That doesn't matter. Don't worry about the capitalization. It changes nothing.

Therefore, it definitely becomes larger than the 'Action Card' definition.

I think they try to make it a point to say "Action Card" when they mean "Action Card."

But, does it become larger than the 'Boldface Limited, Open, Battle, Reaction' (LOBR) definition to include anything the player does?

No. There is no reason to go beyond the rulebook definition of "action" in this case. It is only talking about the "Battle, Limited, Open, or Reaction" definition and it works just fine that way. No reason to infer a broader scope.

The Legions Charge

Does the Ambushing a character, which dies, counts as one for opponent's Limited phase or for the Attack sorta-sub-phase?

It would count for that Attack Phase, at that Phase alone. You can't treat the Attack Phase like the Limited Phase is still going on. Those Phases have separate rules sets and need to be distinct from one another. Put the Action Phase on hold until the Attack Phase you've created is finished.

Ring of Air

Ring of Air's text changed as of Diamond. The Ring of Air now refers to only Spells and Kiho rather than Spell Effects and Kiho. It now looks to me like I can no longer use innate abilities to get the Ring of Air into play. Is that correct?

You've got it.

Remorseful Seppuku vs. Loyal Yojimbo

Does "Remorseful Seppuku" count as a "card effect" for the purposes of Loyal Yojimbo? I believe seppuku is normally a rulebook effect, but I didn't know if this was an exception to the rule.

When a Samurai or Courtier commits Seppuku via the Rulebook Effect, it does not count as a card effect.

When someone commits seppuku due to a card telling them to, it IS considered to be a card effect. Much like a Duel has procedures defined in the Rulebook, so does Seppuku.

Loyal Yojimbo can Negate the destruction caused by a Duel from Iaijutsu Challenge, so it can Negate the destruction caused by a Seppuku from Remorseful Seppuku.

Air Shugenja

Yosuchi is an Air Oni and a Shugenja. Is it an Air Shugenja?

An "Air Shugenja" is any card with both the "Air" and "Shugenja" traits.

Yosuchi has both traits, so it qualifies.

I know the old trait placement is a little confusing, but there are only a few specific traits that can't be broken up into their component words - mostly the Faction Traits. "Air Oni" nor "Air Shugenja" are exceptions to this rule.

(no subject)

Is there a 'rulebook' definition of 'take control' that can be given for clarity?

"Take control" means that the card in question now has the player doing the "taking control" as its controller.

am I able to resolve his battle, and then 'take control' of my own Hida Enko, and move her into the battle?

I don't see anything stopping the movement effect, even if the "take control" effect isn't particularly relevant when you already control the card.

I want to ask Jeff about the implications of what would happen if the "take control" effect were Negated, but the movement effect was not. I can't adequately grasp at this moment the implications of having my Clan Champion still under my control, but actually in the opposing army from me in battle.

Stupid Fushin. First he kills my master, and now he does this to me.

It is SOOOO payback time.

I declare an attack, and Enko, during the infantry assignment phase, is assigned to defend province (a). Since I'm sneaky, I assign Fushin, during the cavalry assignment phase, to province (b). If I resolve the battle at province (b), and then use Fushin to 'take control' of Hida Enko, can he then react with the movement negation ability of the Right Hand of the Emperor in this situation? Does the change of control occur before the movement, meaning that my control of her nullifies my opponents', and thus making her an illegal target? (She's not his anymore)

See! All Fushin does is ruin my life!

I'm going to catch that lousy little onisu and rip off all 4 of his arms and beat his stupid looking face in with the bloody stumps! >:(

... um ... and in other news I'm forwarding this to Jeff.

Ring of Water Question

This came up in a recent game. When a battle action is cancelled, does it count towards the Battle action requirement to play the Ring of Water? I don't *think* so, since a cancelled action is treated as if it was never played (precedent: ruling on Razor's Edge Dojo), but I just wanted to make sure.

That precedent stands. Canceled Actions won't be taken into consideration after they are Canceled for the Ring of Water, Razor's Edge Dojo, or anything else that literally counts the number of actions taken.

Yet More Kuro's Fire.

So here I am, abusing my blood to present a(n open) Phoenix hypothisis.

You see, I have Naka Tokei (5/6) in play, and I want to protect him, so he gets Heavy Armor.

My opponent, who is somewhat forgetful, bows Iuchi Katsumi (2/4), using Kuro's Fire to try to shoot the Tokei, declaring a Range 7 attack. Reasoning it will be come legal when Heavy Armor takes effect.

Being no fool, I bow Shiba Danjuro (without Heavy Armor) to redirect the action to him.

Does my opponent now lose the game for taking an illegal action?

No, your opponent doesn't lose the game. What he tried to do would've been legal, left to its own devices. He no more loses the game than if Tsuruchi Technique pushed the Ranged Attack over Kuro's Fire's limit.

The real question is this: if I declare a Ranged 7 Attack from Kuro's Fire, who can I target with it if my Shugenja is a 2/4?

The answer seems to be that I can only target someone whom targeting would cause the Ranged attack's strength to drop to 6 or less. That person is the guy with Heavy Armor. Hence, when it came time to choose a target for the Ranged 7 Attack, Danjuro wasn't a legal choice to target, was he?

You can't redirect an Action or Effect to a target the player playing the Action or Effect couldn't target with that Action in the first place, so Danjuro's redirection Reaction shouldn't even be a legal play in this case.

I already forwarded this concept over to Jeff. We'll see how it pans out.

For now, just don't play with Heavy Armor in your decks. You'll thank me for it later. ;-)

questions requarding HC

1) is akodo tadenori really no longer a samurai? or even a bushi?

He seems to have traded in these traits along with his soul in order to obtain Kitsu Motso's rightful title as "Lion Clan Master Tactician."

I sincerely hope someone resurrects Motso so he can kick the living beejeezus out of this lame pretender. :P

2) turn of fortune: does the new target have to be legal? ex. redirecting a kolat assasin to hida kuon, or a to do what we must to a unit it would not have blown up?

All effects that redirect have to redirect to targets they could have legally targeted before being redirected. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 74, "Targeting and Redirection")

3) heart of bushido: i dont understand this spell, unless im reading it wrong you destroy the shugenja basically immeadiately after casting it. thus rendereing its effect non-existant. is it missing a "at the end of the turn" or a "when this shuganja straightens"?

"Then destroy this shugenja."

Then means after the previously described occurance happens. In this case, it was referring to the expiration of the previously mentioned effect (though it is pretty darn hard to pick up on, if you ask me). Ergo, after "this shugenja remains bowed and in play" expires, the shugenja is destroyed.

It might be easier to just think of it as saying, "Destroy this shugenja when that effect expires."

4) hida sosuke: can i kill him via my own card effect in a battle, activate his trait, then return him to play via a feign death or kisada's shrine?

There are no restrictions against any of those plays on his card, except for the restriction on Kisada's Shrine about being Samurai. If he gets the Samurai trait somehow, you're all set.

5) kakita kaneo: with his ability adding 3C in a duel "as if he had focused" is this compatible with things that raise focus values like ring of fire? can i draw a card for this "focus" after the duel resolution?

As if he had focused means that anything looking for focusing thinks he focused. The value of the Focus was 3.

Ring of Fire's focus increase looks for "cards" however. He may have focused, but there is no card to modify.

Ring of Fire's draw ability looks for CARDS being focused from your hand though. You didn't focus a Card from your hand with his ability.

Egg of Pan Ku

When the Egg of Pan Ku comes into play, it copies someone. If it copies an Oni, can Shokansuru pay for the Egg? If it copies a Shadowlands personality, can Shadowlands-only gold pay for it?

No. At the time you are paying for it, it is an Action Card.

Playing that Action Card is considered to be "bringing a Shadowlands Card into play," but that does not make the Card itself Shadowlands until it hits play and creates its own effects to become so.

Smoke & Mirrors [RULES]

Can Smoke & Mirrors be used to discard a focus played by Isawa Ochiai to issue a duel, or by Isawa Tsuke before the duel begins?

Yes. If it was their "last focus" at the time you can play Smoke and Mirrors.

That looks like everything for 26 April 2004 that wasn't handled in-thread. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line and I'll get back to it at the first opportunity.