rules for 23 Feb. 2004

Question about formations

Now that we have the official formation rules, I have a question.

In Mark's original post he hinted that a formation that requires two samurai and a ninja would not be satisfied by an army containing two personalities, one being a samurai and and the other a personality with both the Samurai and Ninja traits. However, the actual rules do not contain any information stating that this is the case. My question is, was Mark right?

Mark is right. You need a separate card to satisfy each requirement.

Formation rules from the Hidden City rulesheet

Can an army have more than the requirements listed on the Formation?

Yes. They are minimums. You don't need an exact match.

Rules Question

I have a couple rules questions.

1) Let's say I'm playing a dishonor deck. My opponent is at -19 honor and I have one turn to beat him. If I have two Doji Nagoris out, a Kolat Assassin in hand, and a Rhetoric in hand, can I Kolat Assassin one of the Nagoris, seppuku, lose 1 honor, then redirect it through the Rhetoric?

Yes.

2) If I'm in battle and I just took my 4th battle action (which also happens to be my 3rd kiho action) can I play Ring of Water from my hand, Introspection off of it to get Ring of Air, and then play Ring of Air? or vice versa?

Yes and yes.

rules for 20 Feb. 2004

Oh man, Jeff this is harsh. Seriously. Crab aren't even CLOSE to top tier...

So? Clan standings ideally have no sway on how rulings issues are handled.

Directly from the DE rulebook (p. 84) "If the Attacker’s Force total exceeds the Defender’s": Destroy all defending units... If the attacking army’s Force total exceeds (not equals) the defending Force total plus the Province’s Strength, destroy the Province and all cards attached to it at the same time as the defending army.

**BATTLE RESOLUTION IS THE *ONLY* TIME THE PHRASE "DESTROYING AN ARMY" IS SATISFIED.**

(DE rulebook is QUITE clear on this statement)

Alright...

Relevant Card Text: Hida Sozen: Sozen cannot be DESTROYED WHILE IN AN ARMY unless there is an opposing unit with more total Force than his unit or the destruction is an effect of your own card or Stronghold. This does not protect attached cards from effects that destroy this entire unit.

Pick Your Battles Reaction: Play BEFORE your army is destroyed for losing or tying in a battle. Only one unit of your choice in your army is destroyed. The rest return to their controller's homes, bowed. Your opponent in the battle still gains honor as if your entire army had been destroyed.

I have a few questions Jeff.

1.) If the cards attached to Sozen are NOT protected from destruction (i.e. this does not protect attached cards from effects that destroy this entire unit), why is the destruction of the army not satisfied? I would think that this would seem contradictory, since only Sozen's destruction is hindered.

Sozen himself is as much a part of his army as the rest of his unit is. Destroying an entire army except for one card is not destroying an entire army.

2.) If Sozen is ALREADY being destroyed due to the player's own card effect, would this not negate the remainder of his clause? (i.e. Sozen cannot be estroyed while in an army unless there is an opposing unit with more total Force than his unit OR the destruction is an effect of your own card or Stronghold... Wedge, other cards, etc...)

Because Pick Your Battles is explicit that the army needs to be "destroyed for losing or tying in a battle". [card text]

3.) [MOST IMPORTANT] This is a question of timing. Based upon the DE rulebook, "Battle resolution is the ONLY time the phrase 'DESTROYING AN ARMY' is satisfied." PYB is played BEFORE battle resolution (i.e. before destruction).

There is where your argument is flawed. The destruction of the losing army is just one thing that happens during resolution. Counting army totals is also done then. So are deaths caused by the Yu trait. Pick Your Battles is not played "before battle resolution." It's played during the Resolution Segment. There is no contradiction.

clan trait

Is the Monk still the trait of a clan?

Yes. [DE p. 65]

Rules Question

Ring of air:play after casting three or more spells/or kiho in one turn.

So if you have played 3 kiho in one turn, you may choose to play the ring of air whenever you want, even during battle resolution, even(I think) during the end phase and so on.

Not true. You must still play it immediately following its play condition.

Luring Tactics and Slaughter the Scout

I was wondering if you could use luring tactics and move my guy and the opponents guy into another province and then use slaughter the scout to kill the opposing personality that I moved in, bowing my personality which I just moved in to the province or do I have to have a guy in that province before hand?

You must bow a Personality who was in that battle beforehand. You cannot use the one who just moved in.

Wedge + Overwhelmed

I'm pretty sure that my question has already been answered, but I couldn't find it in the archive - questions concerning Wedge or Overwhelmed have been asked too many times ;-)

I oppose one single personality which has been wedged and play Overwhelmed. Since DE Rulebook says: An actions targets something if it uses the word "target" or if any player sometimes has to choose what it affects. [p.72], there shouldn't be a target and the personality is destroyed. His controller doesn't have a choice.

You are overlooking a key word: "sometimes".

In this situation, there is only one possible Personality to destroy. However, that is not always the case. If a card offers a choice in some games but not in others, it is a targeted effect in all games.

I face two personalies and the one with more force has been wedged. As my opponent can't chose to destroy the personality with the highest force (he can't target him or her), he has to send home both. Again there is no targeting, since both personalites are the only possible targets.

Am I right?

Again, no. Overwhelmed sometimes offers a choice, therefore it is a targeted action even when it does not. In this example, Overwhelmed will do nothing at all to the opposing army, for its leader can neither target and send home two units nor target and destroy the highest-Force Personality.

Pep'trchek

"This Battle" is the operative term. It doesn't say "His Battle" or "This Army". What "This Battle" means is:

Pep'Trchek is at Province A Other Ratling personalities at province B Battle at province A resolves first.

During the Battle at Province A, which happens first, you cannot give the bonus to a Ratling at province B.

Were the order reversed, it would be acceptable. Or if Peppy was home.

Untrue. Pep'trchek says "in this battle". His action is only legal to use if he is in the current battle because he is referring to the one happening around him.

Tournament Clarifications

I'm just wondering, Swiss Single Elimination, does this mean a Swiss style tournament to determine the finalists, and then a single elminination lot of final rounds to determine the final winner?

Yes.

Rules: Matsu Ikari and Suitengu's Uncertainty

Matsu Ikari 3/2 -/6/3 Lion Clan Samurai * Soul of Ikoma Ryozo Move Ikari to your home, bowed, after any action resolves that requires discarding the Imperial Favor as a cost and that targets or affects any card in Ikari's battle. This happens even if the action's effects are negated

Suitengu's Uncertainty Immediate Terrain Elemental Water Kiho Battle: You must target one of your unbowed Shugenja or Monks in this battle to play this card. Each time any unit leaves this battle, you may have it move to an adjacent Province of your choice instead of its original destination.

Assuming that both an unbowed Ikari and Suitengu's Uncertainty are in the same battle when the Imperial Favor is used, what happens? From the card text, I can obviously allow Ikari to run home bowed.

A) Ikari is in an adjacent province of my choice, unbowed. The 'instead' clause on Suitengu's Uncertainty replaces the entire movement. (Precedent: Togashi Shozo's interaction with the Shrine to Fukurokojin.)

B) Ikari is in an adjacent province of my choice, bowed by his card text. (Counter-precedent: Right Hand of the Emperor vs Refugees.)

C) I can't use Suitengu's Uncertainty for some reason.

D) Colin, get off my list.

B. Suitengu's Uncertainty only changes the destination.

Iweko vs.Kaagi, again...

Greetings,

Please, I would like a rules-guy answer for this question:

From the AR:

Kitsuki Kaagi a.. The challenge happens before any consequences of refusing the duel. E.g., if a Personality refuses Iaijutsu Challenge, Kaagi's duel starts before he or she can commit seppuku. [February 1999]

What is the reason for this?

a) Text on Kaagi. b) Especial rulin for him. c) Somebody forgets change this ruling after Iweko-seppuku rulings.

C. You can tell by the date.

questions

About Hiruma Tatsuzo:

1. When he is in an army?

When he is at (not in) a Province during an Attack Phase, either attacking or defending it. [Glossary] Or if some card has been played that puts him in an army, like Ambush.

For example, if I declare an attack and my opponent target it with the favor (Underhand) can I bow a Follower to cancel it?

Tatsuzo is not in an army if he has not assigned yet. Reactions that immediately follow the declaration of an attack, like the Underhand's, cannot be canceled with his ability. He CAN cancel things like Daidoji Ekiken, since those happen after Tatsuzo assigns [card text].

2. Does the actions that affect the entire unit target him? For example, Can I cancel a Block Supply Lines?

Anything that targets an entire unit also targets just the Personality, and vice versa. [DE p. 73] Yes.

About Hida Sozen:

If he is in a Battle, and he has a 2F Follower (making a 6F Unit) and opposes a 3F Personality with a 4F Follower (making a 7F unit), What happens if:

1. The opposing Personality is bowed.

The opposing UNIT has a total Force of 0. Sozen's unit has a total Force of 6. If these are the only units in the battle, the opposing army dies and Sozen's controller gains 4 Honor.

2. The opposing Follower is bowed.

Same thing, only the opposing army has 4F.

And if he is in a Battle, and he has a 3F Follower (making a 7F Unit) and opposes a 3F Personality with a 3F Follower (making a 6F unit), What happens if:

3. Sozen is bowed.

The opposing unit has a total Force of 6. Sozen's unit has a total Force of 0. If these are the only units in the battle, Sozen's army dies and the opponent gains 4 Honor.

4. Sozen`s Followers is bowed.

Same thing, only Sozen's unit has 4F.

Hida Katai[Jeff}

Hida Katai's ability states

Crab Clan Samurai € Yu 2 Once per turn, you may attach a Follower to Katai from your discard pile as if it were in your hand.

Can I do this in both my turn and my opponent's turn?

Yes. However, Katai does not give you any actual method of attaching a Follower to him. Once per turn, he allows some other card or game effect that puts a Follower onto him from your hand to use (a dead or discarded) one from your discard pile instead.