post for 27-28 May 2003

Void Tattoo clarifications

So there's some discussion about Void Tattoo on the Dragon mailing list, and it's gotten me a little paranoid...

"Limited: Target one of your Personalities with the Tattooed trait and without a Tattoo of the Void. For the rest of the game, the Personality has a Tattoo of the Void, andmay not be targeted with actions while he or she is in an army unless the action's player discards a card as an additional cost of the action, and does not count towards whether or not his or her controller has units in a battle."

The above text is from L5RSearch, so it may not be TOTALLY accurate, but let's go with it.

If I have a personality with a Void Tattoo and a battle action, like Hitomi Maya and her ranged attack schtick, can that personality take that action if they're in battle? Same applies to said personality with a follower that has a battle action. Because the personality with the Void Tattoo doesn't count towards whether or not you have units in the battle, can you use battle actions on cards in a unit led by a personality with a Void Tattoo?

If you can't, that makes the tattoo pretty... well, pretty useless, frankly. Jeff?

When a Personality has a Tattoo of the Void, that unit does not count towards Presence or for any other card or effect that requires you to have a Personality in the battle, such as Barbarian Horde or declaring a naval invasion. But it is still there, can still be targeted and affected by things, and can still use its actions.

question about sequence of effects... Jeff?

With corruptions price specifically, though im sure this has implications with other cards...

I have a corrupt mine in play and no personalities in play. I bow the mine and use it to pay for the personality. Is it legal to play CP then? Why?

Assuming you also do not have any Jade cards, no. Corruption's Price must be played as soon as its trigger occurs, which is the bowing of the Corrupted Mine. The Personality has not entered play yet because it has not been paid for.

Corruption's price, Trusted Counsel, Honorable Seppuku, Targeting

1) Corruption's Price

Player A pays for a follower using a corrupt holding. His opponent hits him with a Corruption's Price, killing the personality that should receive the follower. I found the rulings that the follower is discarded (not in the archive, however, which is unfortunate).

Now the question is: If player A needs more than one holding to pay for the follower, does he have to pay the full cost even if he knows the attachement is invalid already?

Yes.

In any case, can I wait with the CP until my opponent bowed the necessary gold to pay the card, or do I have to play it as soon as the corrupt holding is used?

As soon as it's bowed. [card text]

2) Trusted Counsel

Battle: You may draw up to 3 Fate Cards from your deck. For each card drawn, your opponent in this battle may either draw one Fate Cards or give a 3F bonus to one Personality in this battle.

Player A attacks, B has no defending units. A now plays Trusted Counsel. There is an discussion now whether B can draw the cards or not, based on different interpretations of this part of the rules:

A reference to "an opponent" in relation to a battle means "a player with units in the opposing army." A reference to "your opponent" or "the opponent" in this context means either "the Attacker" or "the Defender," as appropriate, regardless of whether or not the player has units present.

As non of the participating players are native english speakers, we need some official statement here :)

The Glossary makes a distinction between "the" or "your" opponent, which forces there to be only one, and "an" opponent, which allows one out of potentially several. That is the key. If the grammar only allows one opponent, then you always have one.

Trusted Council uses the term "your opponent". That will always be the Attacker or the Defender.

"Opponent", by the way, is not defined in the glossary.

It's shorthand for "opposing player".

Neither is

"modified", which makes it hard sometimes to decide whether something modifies or not (Is a redirection of an honor loss a modification? It took us some time to figure until I found the ruling for Wind's Truth).

"Modified" does not have a special game definition. It covers any kind of change, including amount, time, player, and whether it's a loss or a gain.

3) Cancelling and not paying of costs

If part of the cost of using an action or bringing a card into play is prevented, the player trying to take the action or play the card may either use further resources to complete the payment or allow the attempt to fail. If it fails, the player returns the card to where it came from and does not receive a refund for any remaining costs, Gold and otherwise, that he or she already paid. The player cannot spend that Gold on another card instead.

If a cost for an action cannot or will not be paid, the action is canceled. [JA, 25 January 2002]

This one is just for clarification: If I play an action card from my hand and can't pay the full costs, it is both considered cancelled and goes back to my hand?

Yes. But you cannot announce an action that you know you cannot pay for. This situation will only occur if some kind of reaction or other countermeasure interferes with your planned payment.

4) Honorable Seppuku and Kakita Munemori

Kakita Munemori: Political Reaction: Bow Munemori to cancel a Political action performed by a non-Courtier Personality.

Honorable Seppuku: Political Reaction: Play this card after one of your samurai creates, or is targeted by, or is affected by an effect that dishonors him or her or causes you to lose Honor.

Performing actions, H&E Rulessheet: Actions which involve one or more Personalities or Followers in their cost, such as requiring them to bow or become dishonored, or which require targeting your own Personalities or Followers who meet certain conditions, such as being a Shugenja or a Tactician or having a Chi above 2, are performed by those cards.

Can Munemori cancel Honorable Seppuku?

Yes.

Our confusion comes from the grammar of the H&E rulessheet. We're non-native speakers and have trouble to determine where the different 'or's belong. It could be read as 'Actions have to involve the Personality in their cost', with everything else beeing examples for costs. Or, it could be 'Actions with involve Personalities in their cost and/or Actions which require targeting the personalities who meet certain conditions'.

It is the second one.

5) Targeting

In your rulings from May 22nd, you write:

I don't understand then why Shosuro Technique would ever not target the person whose Force or Chi is being copied. Because of the general method used to determine what ANY targeted action targets: anything that is affected or that must be chosen. I'm trying to apply the rule consistently. Copying the Force as a Battle action requires selecting one Personality out of several. Copying the Chi of the one opponent in a duel does not.

This sounds like the old, pre-gold targeting rule to me. I had the impression that, under gold rules, targeting is the default.

It is. BUT, actions do not target every single thing that appears anywhere in the text. That was quickly found to be an unusable rule.

For example, Witch Hunt (Reaction: Play this card when a Kiho or Spell is cast. One of your Shugenja issues an unrefusable challenge to the caster.) has no choice involved at all, so by extending your Shosuro Tech rule, it does not target. However, if I read the rulebook, it is not a global effect, so it targets because of targeting rule #4.

Right. So now WHAT does it target? Your Shugenja, since you have to pick one, and the other shugenja, because it does something to him (the challenge). Shosuro Technique's Reaction does not do anything to the Personality it copies Chi from.

Question-Wholeness of self...

Will the Spell "Wholeness of Self" prevent the increases in Force and Chi that occur from focusing?

Yes.

post for 22 May 2003

[SNIP] Because of the general method used to determine what ANY targeted action targets: anything that is affected or that must be chosen. I'm trying to apply the rule consistently. Copying the Force as a Battle action requires selecting one Personality out of several. Copying the Chi of the one opponent in a duel does not. [SNIP]

That would imply that any time only one "target" is possible then no targeting happens (Iajitsu Duel against one opponent, any ranged attack with one opponent, etc.). I don't get it. Help me.

You missed the part where I said a choice must be involved or an effect must be applied.

Daidoji Rekai vs Slaughter of the Scout

If a player moves in Diadoji rekai into a battle with her action and the opposing player plays slaughter the Scout What Happens?

"If a card is destroyed after all costs (if any) of its effects have been paid but before all its effects resolve, all remaining effects still occur." [H&E rulesheet] The ranged attack still happens, since Rekai's action had all its costs paid.

Ide Michisuna

if i have Ide Michisuna in play, and i shame a samuri, they commit sepukku and i take his reaction to cancel it what exactly happens

do they lose 1 honor + personal honor

do they lose 7 + personal honor

or neither

Seppuku reduces the loss to 1 and restores the samurai to honor. Michisuna prevents the re-honoring but not the reduction to 1. If the samurai was dishonored, her player would lose 1 + Personal Honor. If she was not, he would lose only 1.

and can i use him with remoresful sepukku to cancel them dying honorably and amke them lose personal honor?

Yes.

Walls

If someone is using The Great Walls of Kaiu and brings in all their fortifications with a four less gold cost, then wouldnít that mean that as long as Oni no Fushiki did not have his Force reduced, he could take out any Fortification?

Fortifications cost 4 less Gold for the Great Walls player, at all times. This will make them easier for Fushiki no Oni to destroy them.

Armor of the mountain

a opponsing player may move a personality of armor of the mountain wint bolck supply lines, refugees toturo tutsdao, or something like this, because the tex of the card says YOU may not move this unit in or out battle.

I do not know if this is supposed to be a statement or a question, but it is correct. The restriction against moving the unit out of battles applies only to the unit's own controller.

Friendly Traveler village question Jeff?

From a friend.. Does Friendly Traveller Village Produce 4 Gold when paying for Katsu, Hitaki, Chuniko (The "Shadowlands Shugenja"). I ask because Shadowlands is not a faction, and they have no other Faction Traits on them.

AND

Question for Jeff

Can a player, you bring a human shadowlands personality with the Friendly Traveler village holding, using the "Bow to Produce 4 gold when paying for a Human Personality with no Faction trait." ability? or does the fact that they have the shadowlands trait equal a faction trait?

It does, in fact, produce 4 Gold for them. The Shadowlands Faction has no faction trait. [GE p. 35]

Acquiring Favor

Can someone tell me, how "Acquiring Favor" works, what exactly it is doing?

Any time you would have to give up the Favor as a cost of something (like using a Wind action or attaching the Imperial Standard), you can play Acquiring Favor instead. You may do this regardless of your Family Honor and regardless of where the real Favor is.

Rules Question - Tsuruchi Sho + Jade Yari

If Tsuruchi Sho has a Jade Yari, can he bow the Yari and combine it with his ranged attack (which doens't bow) for a total of a 4 RA Strength?

Yes.

post for 23 May 2003

Please, if you are going to reply to just one issue out of more than a dozen in a large or digested post, kindly delete everything else in that message. It makes your posts much easier to read.

The point of placing her Reaction "before" the challenge was to insure it would always go before Reactions that get played "when" or "after" the challenge happens, thus maximizing the number of Reactions that could be used on her behalf under the Gold targeting rules, without adding a bulky and dangerous sentence like "this reaction always happens before any others".

Just making sure, because I'm half asleep while reading this and I won't get another chance to read it while I'm more coherant until this time tomorrow... This does mean that Chiyeko may straighten to issue Judgement's duel, correct?

Yes.

Bend Like A Reed ?

Can i strike in a duel and use Bend Like a Reed? Or does my oppoent have to strike?

Your opponent must strike against you.