post for 28 January 2003

L5R-CCG-Digest V2002 #905

Altering the cost of a particular type of card only matters when you are bringing that card type into play from your hand or Provinces, not when you are using an action that creates a card of that type. [JA, 18 October 2000] E.g., costs of actions that generate followers (e.g., Farmlands) are not affected by things that pay for or reduce the cost (Hida Tsuru, non-Experienced) of followers. These costs can be reduced by effects that look for when particular effects occur; e.g., "when bringing a follower into play" or "when attaching." [Extension from Hida Tsuru, Experienced. Reversal, JA, email, 20 September 2000]

wouldn't "Ratling Followers will join you for 1 less Gold" be considered an effect which looks for a particular effect to occur. e.g. a ratling follower is joining me therefor its cost is reduced by one?

The Follower token doesn't exist until the ability fully resolves. The ability doesn't resolve until it's fully paid for.

also do you own ratling tokens before they are brought into play?

Before they're brought into play, nobody owns them because they don't exist.

Rules questions

I was at a tourney on saturday and had a couple of questions that came up:

1) Does Hida tokichiro still get his bonus from weapons and armors attatched to him if in search of the future is played?

Yes. He increases the Items' bonuses, and their bonuses add to his Force. In Search... does not reduce Force bonuses granted "to or from cards attached" to a Personality.

2) If on my opponents turn he dishonors my personality with chukandomo attatched and I have 41 honor. when I start my next turn do I win or do I lose the honor first? we had the debate and It was ruled that he lost the honor first. Which takes precedence?

Things that happen at the start of a turn, like the Honor Victory check, go before things that happen during the Straighten Phase, like Chukandomo's Personality dying instead of straightening.

3) Can I have Hida Kuon experienced and Hida Kuon xp2 on the table at the same time without having to overlay?

No. [GE p. 36] You cannot play or overlay a card if it would result in having two cards in play with the same title and the Unique trait.

4) If I'm playing another crab player does my hida kuon get the bonus if my opponent has Hida Kuroda in Play?

Yes.

(jeff) Some Rules Questions

If you play Minor Illusons when the sacrifical altar is played, what happens?

a) Nothing, the destruction is prevented, no gold, no honor loss. b) destruction is a cost, the personality is destroyed, you gain gold, no loss. c) Destruction is prevented, but gold is generetaded wihtout honor loss (way too powerful)

b) it is.

If you play wave tatto on the new kokujin?

Forwarded to the Rules Team. I guarantee you it's not c).

Open question: If honor requirements are only cheked during the diansty phase, why the kolat recriter has his accumulatted ruling?

Intent / balance issues, probably.

Lord Moon's Bones rules question

Reads: During a duel against this personality, the opposing personality loses 1 chi for each focus card he or she plays.

first, "during duels against this personality" is a trigger for the chi penalty, but it is also a limit for the effect or the penalty lasts until the end of turn as it dont says specifically when the penalty ends.

It is not a duration for the penalties. They last all turn.

second, as per rules, focus are added to chi when played, so would an oposing personality have a "phantom bonus" to his chi that will let it play focus cards even when lord moon's bones penalty reduces his personal chi to 0?

He does not have a "phantom bonus" from focusing. He has a real bonus. Not everyone knows how large it is, but it's really there.

Rules question for Jeff

Monkey Magistrates

reaction: bow MM when this Per. is targeted by another player's action to give this personality +2c. ( if the per. is now an illegal target, the action does not affect him or her.)

So my question is: If a per. with MM attached has 3 chi and is targeted with a Kolat Master what happens?

a. KM is canceled, gold is not refunded and the player taking the action does not lose the 4 honor

b. KM is not canceled, gold is not refunded and the player taking the action loses 4 honor.

b. In addition, all Followers attached to that Personality with Honor Requirements above 0 would still be destroyed. [GE p. 48]

ps " does not affect him or her " does this mean cancelled or is the action taken and it does nothing, but it takes up the players turn. Just want to clarify.

It means it doesn't affect the illegal target. Any effects it was going to have ON THE TARGETS THAT ARE NOW ILLEGAL do not happen. All the rest still do.

Exile's Road

What i forgot to ask Jeff is : am i allowed to copy twice the same unique region.same unique region.

Yes.

There must be something i'm not correctly understanding about the rule that says "you cannot bring a unique card into play if a unique card with the same name is already in play". A few month ago, i asked Jeff the following question : If "Hantei the 38th" is given the monk trait, then attaches Shiryo No Tetsuya, thus becoming "Hantei the 39th", is it possible to bring "Hantei the 39th" into play, as it is unique, and there's already a unique card with the same name in play? If i remember correctly, Zen answered "no", and Jeff "yes" (so i assume "yes" is the final answer), but none offered explanation, so i'm still wondering why ?

I've never been a fan of the fact that numbers in Experience levels and card titles can be changed by things like Shiryo no Tetsuya, but apparently I'm in the minority among the Rules Team on that issue. Hantei the 38th really would block the "real" 39th from entering play in this situation.

Question for Jeff

If an uncertainty is played on a per. in a battle than a Shosuro tech, do you add the penalty from the uncertainty after the new force is set.

Again I quote page 32:

] It is possible to set a card's value directly to a particular ] number. Do not apply any bonuses or penalties already in effect ] to this new number -- in essence, they're already part of it. ] Do apply any later changes as you normally would.

When you set a Personality's Force to 3, or 8, or 1, or 99, that is its new current total value. That is the value it's going to have until a new bonus or penalty is created or an existing one changes or wears off.

question on cutting...

I think this question has been asked before, if so then forgive my insolence, but what is the proper etiquette for your opponent to cut and/or shuffle your deck?

When shuffling an opponent's deck, you are allowed to rearrange the cards in any order or manner you wish provided you don't see the card faces, damage the cards, or take an unduly long time to finish.

I have played players that take the deck shuffle it then lay out four or five cards on the table and then procede to lay out the remaing cards onto those on the table. Now I would not complain about shuffleing decks and cutting decks, but it seems that the player that does this is doing it on purpose to mess with other players' deck consistency.

Decks shouldn't be consistent. They should be random. If there is any pattern to your deck whatsoever after you shuffle, you haven't shuffled well. After you're finished shuffling, you should know NOTHING about the distribution of the cards in it -- and no blind manipulation of cards in that deck afterwards, no matter how methodical or pattern-based, should produce a consistent impact on draws from it. If your opponent can, time after time, cause you to get long strings of just Personalities or just Holdings by BLINDLY restacking your deck before the game, you need to do less of your own pre-shuffle manipulation (like spreading out or alternating Personalities/Holdings), or shuffle more first, or both.

Is there a set guideline as to the means of shuffleing and/or cutting others decks? If so then is the said player's means of cutting allowed?

We're still debating internally whether cutting requires leaving a certain minimum number of cards in each half of the deck. As for shuffling, what he's doing is not only allowed, it's allowed on purpose.