post for 18 November 2002
A rules digest from the L5R CCG rules team, copied from the mailing list archive for Oracle of the Void. The askers' names are left out. Rulings are as they stood on this date; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A Few Rules Queries...
Howdy all, I had a few rules queries come up in a series of games today, and was wondering about them.
1. Imperial Palaces of Fu Leng/ Return of Fu Leng
IPoFL says player cannot gain or lose honor, but does not explicitly say that the player cannot win by honor. Return of Fu Leng destroys a province if you are unable to renounce your ability to win by honor. Does the IPoFL player lose a province to this event automatically or not?
Automatically lost. Any Stronghold that cannot reach 40 Family Honor is implicitly unable to achive an Honor Victory. This is in the archive.
2. Hoshi Wayan exp2/ Frenzy
If Hoshi Wayan exp2 has a tattoo token on him, and his controller plays Frenzy, can he gain the extra 2 force from his reaction before Frenzy Dishonors him?
Yes. His Reaction is taken after he gains Force, but before the next effect of Frenzy happens.
3. Pick Your Battles/Night Battle:
If Night Battle is in play, and you do not have a shugenja or shadowlands card in the battle, can you even play Pick your Battles? Once the battle segment ends, and the terrain resolves, aren't the restrictions on playing actions/reactions off? Night Battle says specifically during the battle-not the battle action phase??? Pick your battles is played before your army is destroyed by a battle, which means during resolution.
Immediate Terrains affect play while the Terrain is in play. [GE p. 55] Terrains still in play at the end of the Battle Actin Segment stay in play until after resolution. [GE p. 58] Night Battle (and Deadly Ground) stay in play during the Resolution Segment, therefore, and continue to have their stated effect of prohibiting actions that don't destroy them. That includes Pick Your Battles.
rules question [jeff]
do cards with variable costs get their cost freezen once they enter play?
No.
for example, after the moneylender enters play for 4, will his gold cost be 4 forever?
The amount you PAID for the Moneylender is 4. That never changes because it's a historial fact (or "an" historical fact, if you're not American).
The Moneylender's COST, however, is "*", which generally counts as "0" for the purpose of things like Shiro Ide.
Questions
1) Does playing an Ambush count as declaring an attack for purposes of Show of Good Faith?
Yes.
2) If I bow Kozue to give Samurai Bob double chi and then Samurai Bob dies. Can I leave Kozue bowed to keep giving the dead Bob double chi? That way if they come back into play they'd keep the double chi, right?
Yes and right.
Hantei 39th, Toturi(kyd), Canceling actions and other rules questions
I have several questions about rulings.
1) When Hantei the 39th(kyd) is sent home instead destroyed, does he keep his attached cards?
It depends whether he was being destroyed by something that would have killed just him (Iaijutsu Duel, Kolat Assassin, Occult Murders) or eliminated his entire unit (To Do What We Must, being in a losing army at resolution). In the first case, his attached cards survive. In the latter, they do not.
2) A few questions about Toturi(kyd)'s reaction. Card reads "Reaction: When the Battle Action Segment of this battle begins, look at the Fate hand of an opposing player and discard one card from that hand". a) Does Toturi must be in that battle to perform that action
Yes. He says "this battle". [BB rulesheet]
and does he need to be opposed?
Yes. He says "AN opposing player", which means a player who controls cards opposing yours. [GE Glossary p. 74]
b) Since you may play as many reactions as you like on same trigger, and his action is not limited to once per turn, does it means you can discard entire opponent's hand by taking Toturi's reaction several times (which would make that card quite broken)?
No. Each printed instance of a Reaction can be used only once per trigger. [GE p. 48] Toturi's trigger is the beginning of the Battle Action Segment, and that only happens once per battle, so Toturi's Reaction is only usable once.
3. When an action that partially targets your cards is cancaled with Towers of Asako, does it cancels entire action or just part that targets.
Canceling an action stops it entirely. All effects that have not yet resolved are prevented. [GE p. 45]
rules questions
Drum of Water Reads, "Drum of Water 6G 3FV Reaction: When an army containing this Personality destroys an opposing army after you have played a Terrain for the battle, play the Ring of Water from your hand. Elemental Battle: Destroy the Drum of Water to move this Personality to another of the Defender's Provinces." [MRP, Gold Edition, 1 July 2001]
Question: For the second Battle action, in order to move the personality does that personality have to be at a Battle?
Yes. He cannot move to "ANOTHER of the Defender's Provinces" if he is not at one of them already.
From the FAQ: Q: So that means I won’t gain extra honor for buying a Personality at full price while I have the Experienced 2 Bayushi Yojiro or the Experienced Ki-Rin’s Shrine? But everyone I know says I do! A: For a while, the rule was that you did, but in Broken Blades the ruleschanged slightly. Now, when you bring a Personality into play for full price during your Dynasty Phase, you gain Honor based on her Personal Honor just before she enters play, so effects that boost her Personal Honor her while she’s in play don’t have a chance to raise it first. Note that Personalities that enter play dishonored will still give you a 0-point Honor gain if brought into play at full price, which will not restore them to Honorable status.
Question: If I play ‘Company you Keep’ on a dishonored personality and the opposing player pays full price on a a greater than 0 PH personality entering play, and since the new personality is entering with a 0 point honor gain, can I use Doji Nagori to increase the honor gain from 0 to 1.
Yes. Paying full price for an aligned Personality with 0 Personal Honor generates a 0-point honor gain, which can be modified by cards such as Nagori.
If I do this, does it rehonor the incoming personality (since that personality is involved in an honor gain), or is the personality ‘not yet in play’ while the honor gain happens?
The Personality will be restored to honor since the gain is now above 0.
If the personality is re-honored (and I used 3 Nagori’s to do it, and the personality had a PH of 3), which of the following happens:
1) Does the first Nagori cause him to be re-honored, allowing the opponent to gain the next 2 honor from the other 2 Nagoris - and if so, does he gain 3 more honor because that is the printed PH of the personality? 2) Does the ‘group’ of Nagoris cause him to be re-honored, so that he doesn’t gain any of the 3 reactions worth of honor, but he still gains the 3 PH of the personality since he was already re-honored during the reactions? 3) Does the ‘group’ of Nagoris cause him to be re-honored, so that he doesn’t gain any of the 3 reactoins worth of honor, and he also does not gain the 3 PH of the personality because the entire sum of the honor gain is what caused him to be re-honored?
#3.
Can I use Make them Pay to cause a non-personality card to be bowed (ie - such as when Vordu’s Discovery is played for weapons)?
Absolutely. The card doesn't even hint that it applies to Personalities only.
If yes, and ‘My Father’s Weapon’ is bowed, does it no longer get to be used to straigten the personality?
Being bowed only stops abilities from being used. My Father's Weapon possesses only traits, not abilities. Bowing it does not hinder either of its effects. [GE p. 33]
Multiple rules questions
hello.
How interacts "blessings of isawa" with "the path not taken"?
Did Leon pay you to ask me this?
Notice there are two different times Blessings of Isawa can occur: before the first casting of The Path Not Taken (where it morphs itself into a copy of the discarded card, which I will call "Action X") and before later castings (where it produces Action X's effect).
The first casting will waste the Blessings of Isawa's effect. By ruling, Blessings only works on Kihos that are discarded after they're cast, but for its initial casting, The Path Not Taken is shuffled back into the deck.
If The Path Not Taken is cast to copy Action X first, and THEN Blessings of Isawa resolves, the first casting of The Path Not Taken for Action X's effect will cause the Kiho to attach to the caster as expected, letting you produce Action X's effect once per turn.
are considered ninja effects, what this means for the purposes of targetting restrictions and traits of the kiho itself, it would be considered a ninja kiho, as per maho with cultists?
Hitomi's Kihos produce Kiho Ninja effects instead of Kiho spell effects. For example, they cannot help play, and cannot be redirected with, the Ring of Air, but they can be canceled with Imperial Edicts.
The honor gain for winning a battle is X for card destroyed, as long as I know this is a single honor gain, is the honor loss from events like "to save an empire" a single loss too?
Multiple gains and losses that happen at the same time usually do not combine. The gain for winning or tying a battle is a famous exception.
Rules question
When I bring Matsu Masutaro into play he creates an honorloss, can I react with the Code of Bushido to negate that honor loss?
No. Bringing a Personality into play is not an example of the Personality "taking an action, or creating an optional effect".
Alignment - Question for Jeff Alexander
The basic question is: "Can a non-Shadowlands player [one of the non-SL strongholds] play 'Alliance: Shadowlands' when the event comes up?"
Yes, but it's pointless.
The rulebook seems to be contradictory in this matter.
Pgs 34/35 of Gold Edition Rulebook [as printed at <http://www.alderac.com/ccg/gold_rulebook.pdf>; ] cited
...and the important sentence capitalized by me:
Page 34 Faction alignments "in the Legend of the Five Rings trading card game: the eight Great Clans, the Bortherhood of SHinsei (see below), the Naga, the Ninja, Ratlings, the Shadowlands (see below), SPirits, and Toturi's Army cards that refer to faction alignments refer only to those in this list. The brotherhood of shinsei uses monk as its identifying trait. The mantis and yoritomos alliance traits are interchangealb. THE SHADOWLANDS FACTION DOES NOT HAVE A TRAIGHT THAT SIGNIFIES ALIGNMENT; therefore a shadowlands player (one playing Sepulchre of bone, the shdawoalnds horder, the spawning ground, or yogo junzo;'s army cannot[get gold reduction, gain honor, etc]..."
So what happens is this: Your Alliance resolves. You legally announce the Shadowlands faction. Now you get a discount on every Personality that has the boldfaced word that means, "I'm a member of the Shadowlands faction." But since there is no such word, you will never find any Personalities with it, and will end up paying full price for everyone who shows up, guaranteed.
Later on it says that "A personality is Unaligned if (and -only- if) it has the Unaligned trait, even if it also has a faction trait."
Some of the SL personalities [see Kokujin] lack the unaligned trait. As it has to be printed, it can't be inferred, and while it says on pg 34 that there is no trait to denote alignment, they cannot be unaligned because that trait must be printed on the card. Thus they are aligned with -something-
You're heading down the wrong path. "Unaligned" is its own separate trait and has nothing to do with faction affiliation [GE p. 35]. More to the point, "Unaligned" and "not aligned with any faction" do not mean the same thing.
Historically, "Unaligned" has meant, more or less, "not affiliated with one of the groups that has a large number of represantatives in the Imperial Court". It would not be entirely inaccurate to say it made more sense if you looked at it from the perspective of the RPG rather than the CCG. Whatever the case, for a long time it tended to go on every Personality who wasn't from one of the seven Great Clans or the Naga, even after traits like Toturi's Army and Monk got promoted to Faction affiliation. Since Gold, we've been trying to use it in a more intuitive fashion, which means omitting it if there's ever a Faction trait to conflict with. That means "Shadowlands" too, since that word still indicates an affiliation within the story.
Rules question - Yodin Sensei and Face Me
Just an Open question to which I think I know the answer but wanted to confirm. Can I use Face Me with Yodin Sensei?
No.
Prior to Gold it would have been legal (if Face Me had been around)
This is incorrect. Face Me! says "Play after one of your challenged Personalities enters a duel and target both duelists." By its own text, Face Me! targets both Personalities. Even before Gold, if a card says it's targeted, it's targeted.
Fortification question for jeff
The great wall of Kaiu allows for a crab player to bring out fortifications for 4 less. If i have a crossroad attached would fortifications cost 7 less?
Yes.
Questions for Jeff A.
1. Player A is in a Battle with player B, Player A has a Tactician with the Armor of the Mountain attached. Player B has an opposing Peep. If player A plays Luring Tactics what happens? a. player A is unable to target his tactician because of the Armor of the Mountain or; b. Player A's tactician stays in the battle and player B's peep moves to an adjacent battle.
b.
2. I am sure you've probably answered this question before, just wanted confrimation
If deadly ground is in play can I target my Tactician with Sup Strategist and get a Sup Tac to destroy the terrain?
No. The effects of Superior Strategist are getting a card from your deck, gaining an action, playing that card, and shuffling your deck. None of these destroy Deadly Ground.