Shiro Chugo + Rentatsu (Cont.)

L5R CCG Rules board, 29 April 2012 to 30 April 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 29 April 2012

About this ruling: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=97661 Wouldn't Rentatsu's honor loss ability be constantly reduced by two if you reacted with Shiro Chugo's Reaction anytime before Rentatsu's initial ability resolves? (i.e. the bowing for the action)

Just curious...

Relavent Texts:

Shiro Chugo Political Reaction: Before an action's resolution, choose your performing unbowed Courtier: Reduce any Honor gain or loss from the action's effects by 2.

Bayushi Rentatsu Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player; he loses 2 Honor.

Alex Jones (rules official), 30 April 2012

About this ruling: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=97661 Wouldn't Rentatsu's honor loss ability be constantly reduced by two if you reacted with Shiro Chugo's Reaction anytime before Rentatsu's initial ability resolves? (i.e. the bowing for the action)

Just curious...

Relavent Texts:

Shiro Chugo Political Reaction: Before an action's resolution, choose your performing unbowed Courtier: Reduce any Honor gain or loss from the action's effects by 2.

Bayushi Rentatsu Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player; he loses 2 Honor.

Shiro Chugo creates an Ongoing Effect - technically an Indefinite Conditional Effect - that triggers each time the original action is about to cause an honour gain or loss, and reduces that gain or loss by 2.

Like all Ongoing Effects with no stated duration, it lasts until the end of turn.

Rentatsu's ability also creates an Ongoing effect, but unlike Shiro Chugo's ability, the duration is specified: "While Rentatsu remains bowed."

Thus, the negation created by Shiro Shugo ends at the end of the turn, and has no effect on Rentatsu's honour losses.