A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 20 June 2011
I am seeking clarification on something that came up in conversation with a friend today.
If a personality were to leave play due a card effect or cost that did not destroy him and he had attached cards where do those cards go? Do they follow the same path as the personality? If that personality were to be discarded would they also be discarded? If that personality were to be removed from the game would they too be removed from the game? If that personality were to be put on the top of his dynasty deck somehow where would they go?
Thank is advance Az
Alex Jones (rules official), 20 June 2011
I am seeking clarification on something that came up in conversation with a friend today.
If a personality were to leave play due a card effect or cost that did not destroy him and he had attached cards where do those cards go? Do they follow the same path as the personality? If that personality were to be discarded would they also be discarded? If that personality were to be removed from the game would they too be removed from the game? If that personality were to be put on the top of his dynasty deck somehow where would they go?
Thank is advance Az
Attachments: When a Personality leaves play, all his attached cards leave play in the same manner as he did.
A player, 20 June 2011
Thanks for this ruling Alex
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=91792
So just to clarify if a personality left play to go on top of his DYNASTY deck his attached cards would also go there on top of his Dynasty deck even though they are fate cards?
That doesn't seem right to me but by the rule quoted that seems to be the case.
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 20 June 2011
Thanks for this ruling Alex
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=91792
So just to clarify if a personality left play to go on top of his DYNASTY deck his attached cards would also go there on top of his Dynasty deck even though they are fate cards?
That doesn't seem right to me but by the rule quoted that seems to be the case.
http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Areas_of_the_ga ... of_play.29: "If a card is about to enter the wrong deck (Dynasty vs. Fate) it goes into the correct deck instead."
Is there an actual card effect that does this that we have to worry about? Cards are often designed so as to prevent exactly those sorts of hypothetical situations that rules don't easily handle.
A player, 20 June 2011
Regarding this thread:
I'm fairly certain that the card that most directly inspired the question is not yet eligible for direct Rules Questions (Ninube Shiho, Forgotten Legacy). However, there are several Legacy cards which result in similar situations: Akiyoshi XP (Time of the Void), Miya Mashigai (Heroes of Rokugan), Sanjuro (Fire and Shadow), Set'chr'foo (Hidden City), Yogo (Dawn of the Empire), and Yoritomo Furikae XP (Soul of the Empire).
Ninube Shiho 3/3 -/6/0 Spider Clan. Shadowlands. Ninja. Shugenja. Unmaker. After Shiho enters play: lose 1 Honor. Battle: Put Shiho on top of your Dynasty deck and target an enemy Personality: Put all cards without attachments in his unit on the bottom of their owners' appropriate decks.
Akiyoshi 2/4 0/5/3 Unaligned Samurai. Toturi's Army. Experienced. Unique Reaction: Bow when an Experienced Personality is about to be destroyed. The Personality is instead reshuffled into that player's dynasty deck instead of being destroyed.
Miya Mashigai 0/2 8/8/4 Unaligned Historian. Unique Reaction: When an Event that does not create a winning condition is revealed, bow Mashigai to cancel the Event. Shuffle Mashigai into your Dynasty Deck.
Sanjuro 2/2 -/3/1 Unaligned Informant. Kolat Reaction: When this copy of Sanjuro enters play, target another copy in play. Shuffle the target copy into its owner's Dynasty deck.
Set'chr'foo 2/3 -/7/1 Ratling Matron. Tattered Ear Tribe. Creature Battle: Shuffle Set'tchr'foo into your Dynasty deck to create a number of 0F Ratling Creature Follower tokens up to the highest Gold cost of any other Ratling card in your army. Attach these tokens any way you wish to Ratling Personalities in your army.
Yogo 4/5 -/15/2 Scorpion Clan Fire Shugenja • Disciple of the Kami • Accursed • Experienced Asako Yogo • Unique Limited: Once per turn, target a Personality with less Chi than Yogo. Straighten the Personality. Battle: Shuffle Yogo into your deck from the current battle: Search your Provinces and deck for any number of Personalities with a total Gold cost less than Yogo's. Bring them into play in your army, ignoring costs.
Yoritomo Furikae 3/3 2/8/2 Mantis Clan Standard Bearer. Spirit Samurai. Experienced When Furikae is destroyed, shuffle him into your dynasty deck instead of discarding him.
A player, 22 June 2011
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=91792#p1217348
following on from this, if my personality with a stolen attatchment left play under an effect that said shuffle him into your deck, would you also shuffle the attatchment stolen from your opponent into your fate deck?
would this now mean you have marked cards (unless deck backers are the same) and your opponent could ask to have you disqualified?
Alex Jones (rules official), 22 June 2011
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=91792#p1217348
following on from this, if my personality with a stolen attatchment left play under an effect that said shuffle him into your deck, would you also shuffle the attatchment stolen from your opponent into your fate deck?
would this now mean you have marked cards (unless deck backers are the same) and your opponent could ask to have you disqualified?
If you'd checked Zen's link, Steve, you would have seen the line above the one he quoted: If a card you own is about to enter another player’s deck, it enters your deck instead in the same manner.
To summarise: If an effect or cost puts a Personality on the bottom/top of his owner's or controller's dynasty deck, he is put on the bottom/top of his owner's dynasty deck. The Personality's attached cards cannot go to the bottom/top of their owners' fate decks simultaneously, so they do so in an order chosen by the active player. Similarly, if an effect or cost shuffles a Personality into his owner's or controller's dynasty deck, he is is shuffled into his owner's dynasty deck. The Personality's attached cards are simultaneously shuffled into their owners' fate decks. This means that a non-owner cannot pay a cost of, for example, "Put XXX on top of your Dynasty deck"