A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 22 May 2011
An expansion of this thread and this thread:
Setup: During player A's turn: Player A Gains 4 for Ebisu's Honesty, 1 for My Father's Shrine, and 4 for bringing Doji Ayano into play. At the end of the turn, Player B plays Proper Deference. Player A reacts with Distractions at Court to Player's B's announcement of Proper Deference, bows Doji Ayano for the costs.
Question: Is any honor negated? If so, which card text applies first: Distraction's at Court or Ebisu's Honesty's unnegatable honor? How is it determined which honor points can't be negated and which honor losses are negated? (a lot of negation and counter negation going on)
My current interpretation: As the second thread reads, Proper Deference tries to negate 9 honor, but 4 honor points can't be negated and so the honor loss is reduced to 5 initially. However, then Distraction's at Court comes into play and negates the remaining 5 honor points. Is this accurate? Just a curiosity.
Relevant Card Text: Ebisu's Honesty: Limited: Destroy your rightmost province and discard this card. Gain 4 Honor, this gain will not be negated.
Distractions at Court: Reaction: After another player’s action is announced, bow your performing Courtier or Magistrate: Reduce all Honor losses by 5 until the action ends.
Proper Deference: Political Reaction: Before a turn ends, if the active player has gained 8 or more Honor this turn, excluding gains from battle resolution: Set his Family Honor equal to its value when the turn began. Draw a card.
Alex Jones (rules official), 23 May 2011
An expansion of this thread and this thread:
Setup: During player A's turn: Player A Gains 4 for Ebisu's Honesty, 1 for My Father's Shrine, and 4 for bringing Doji Ayano into play. At the end of the turn, Player B plays Proper Deference. Player A reacts with Distractions at Court to Player's B's announcement of Proper Deference, bows Doji Ayano for the costs.
Question: Is any honor negated? If so, which card text applies first: Distraction's at Court or Ebisu's Honesty's unnegatable honor? How is it determined which honor points can't be negated and which honor losses are negated? (a lot of negation and counter negation going on)
My current interpretation: As the second thread reads, Proper Deference tries to negate 9 honor, but 4 honor points can't be negated and so the honor loss is reduced to 5 initially. However, then Distraction's at Court comes into play and negates the remaining 5 honor points. Is this accurate? Just a curiosity.
Relevant Card Text: Ebisu's Honesty: Limited: Destroy your rightmost province and discard this card. Gain 4 Honor, this gain will not be negated.
Distractions at Court: Reaction: After another player’s action is announced, bow your performing Courtier or Magistrate: Reduce all Honor losses by 5 until the action ends.
Proper Deference: Political Reaction: Before a turn ends, if the active player has gained 8 or more Honor this turn, excluding gains from battle resolution: Set his Family Honor equal to its value when the turn began. Draw a card.
An honour gain isn't an ongoing effect which can be negated later, it's an instantaneous effect: a change in game state that can only be negated as it happens. A later effect can undo an instantaneous effect, but this is a new, separate, unrelated instantaneous effect, not a negation of the original effect.
When a player gains 4 honour from Ebisu's Honesty, although this gain cannot be negated, it does not prevent future losses of honour.
In particular, Proper Deference does not negate any honour gains, it creates a brand new honour loss, which can be affected by actions such as Distractions at Court.