L5R CCG Rules board, 28 March 2011 to 4 April 2011
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 28 March 2011
Does Ikoma Hagio (exp) ignore the first part of the rule of Location? Specifically can his Battle action be used in the following situation and why or why not?
Battlefield 1 (current battlefield): Lion player has Presence and Opposition. Battlefield 2: Lion player has Ikoma Hagio (exp) Home: Lion player has a unit
Can Lion player use Ikoma Hagio's action to move the unit at home to the current battle?
Rule of Location The Rule of Location: This rule has two parts: 1. A card in a unit must be at the current battlefield to be targeted by, or explicitly perform, a Battle action. 2. If a Battle action is on a card in a unit (a Personality or attachment in play), the unit must be at the current battlefield in order to take that action. EXCEPTION: As with the Rule of Presence, a Battle action can target, be performed by, or be taken by a card in a unit at another location if its costs or effects say they are able to move that unit to the current battlefield. The player who is taking the action must take choices within the action, if possible, such that they do move that unit there. Other players than the player of the action are not forced to make such choices, although if another player has the option to move the unit to the current battlefield, the action is legal to play. When found on a card in a unit, phrases such as “Even if [ the card itself ] is not at the current battlefield” or "Even if [ the card itself ] is home" ignore only the second part of the Rule of Location. They do not necessarily ignore the Rule of Presence or the first part of the Rule of Location.
Cheers UK Ronin
A player, 28 March 2011
Does Ikoma Hagio (exp) ignore the first part of the rule of Location?
No, he ignores the second part: although Ikoma Hagio (Experienced) is a card in a unit, his Battle action may be taken even if he is not at the current battlefield.
Can Lion player use Ikoma Hagio's action to move the unit at home to the current battle?
Yes, because Hagio ignores the second part of the Rule of Location, and the exception to this rule allows to target a unit at home since it will move to the current battlefield.
As Hagio (exp) is the only Performer of his Battle action and he does not ignore part 1 of the rule of Location. How is this a legal action? Is it some subtle difference between "explicit performer" and "performer"?
Rule of Location The Rule of Location: This rule has two parts: 1.A card in a unit must be at the current battlefield to be targeted by, or explicitly perform, a Battle action.
The Exception for rule of Location would easily allow Hagio's action to move his own unit to the current Battlefield.
EXCEPTION: As with the Rule of Presence, a Battle action can target, be performed by, or be taken by a card in a unit at another location if its costs or effects say they are able to move that unit to the current battlefield.
But what allows Hagio (exp) to be the only Performer of the action and yet not move his own unit to, or have to be at, the current battlefield?
Cheers UK Ronin
A player, 3 April 2011
Is it some subtle difference between "explicit performer" and "performer"?
Yes there is. A card performs an action when any of the conditions defined in the glossary is met (see Perform). A card is an explicit performer of an action if it is explicitly mentioned as a performer in the action's constraints block, using the word "performing" (e.g. "Bow your performing Shugenja"). The ability on Hagio XP does not use the word "performing" so there is no explicit performer.
what allows Hagio (exp) to be the only Performer of the action and yet not move his own unit to, or have to be at, the current battlefield?
Regarding the Rule of Location, he ignores the second part because of "Even if Hagio is not at the current battlefield" and he is not concerned with the first part because he does not explicitly perform his own action, so it is legal whatever the target is.
To summarise what I think you are saying the outcome is:
Hagio (exp) can use his action because - 1. He is not the explicit performer of his own action, but that action can move a unit to the current battlefield 2. He can do this from another location becasue of his own wording "Even if Hagio is not at the current battlefield"
So what about Battle actions on cards in units that have no explicit performer but also do not move any units?
e.g. Bayushi Jutsushi (exp) - stuck with the same EAW release as Ikoma Hagio (exp) for simplicity Battle: Bow Jutsushi: Destroy a target non-Unique Dishonorable Personality.
This has no "explicit Performer" and nobody moves. How does this meet the first part of the rule of Location if, as you have explained, cards do not explicitly perform their own actions?
Cheers UK Ronin
A player, 4 April 2011
This has no "explicit Performer" and nobody moves. How does this meet the first part of the rule of Location[?]
In order to meet the first part of the Rule of Location, the targeted non-Unique dishonorable Personality must be at the current battlefield.