A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Akodo Senichi reads:
Reaction: Before another player's card effect destroys one of your Lion Clan Samurai Personalities in Senichi's army, destroy Senichi: Negate the Personality's destruction. Gain 3 Honor.
If Senichi is dishonorable and uses his ability, he dies dishonorably, I lose 0 honor, and then gain 3 from his effect?
Akodo Senichi: If Senichi is dishonorable and uses his ability, he dies dishonorably, I lose 0 honor, and then gain 3 from his effect?
No. It's worse than that.
http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Physically_mark ... shonorable: "Before a player gains Honor from an action or trait that... came from... one or more of his or her dishonorable Personalities..." Senichi's ability comes from him, so this applies.
"...the Personality is rehonored and the player does not gain the Honor." They're separate and independent effects. It's not, "If the Personality is rehonored, then the player does not gain the Honor."
No 3 honor in this scenario.
And, as Zen implied but didn't quite state, no rehonouring, either.
See Matsu Ushio and rehonoring. The key part is that the rehonouring effect does not apply to Uchio or Senichi since they are out of play, and Cards that are not in play or in a resolution, entering-play or focusing area ... are not affected by effects.
Alex
Can you please clarify why you wouldn't rehonor Akodo Senichi?
I'm confused as to why the "multiple jutsushi" effects would dishonor posthumously (given that the first effect was seppuku'd, but the second one wasn't), but gaining honor posthumously wouldn't rehonor.
Why does one effect work on out of play cards, but the other doesn't?
Is it because Bayushi Jutsushi's effect is a delayed effect and the re-honoring effect comes from a rulebook effect?
Thank you for the clarification.
Can you please clarify why you wouldn't rehonor Akodo Senichi?
I'm confused as to why the "multiple jutsushi" effects would dishonor posthumously (given that the first effect was seppuku'd, but the second one wasn't), but gaining honor posthumously wouldn't rehonor.
Why does one effect work on out of play cards, but the other doesn't?
Is it because Bayushi Jutsushi's effect is a delayed effect and the re-honoring effect comes from a rulebook effect?
Thank you for the clarification.
Because Jutsushi's effect is activated when the targeted Personality is in play, while the rulebook effect that attempts to rehonour Senichi is activated when he is out of play.
See Effects in and out of play: When an effect is activated, it will only apply to cards that at the time of activation are either in play, or in a temporary focusing, entering-play, or resolution area.
Addendum: See also here.
What about a strategy card?
Battle: Destroy your target unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality: Destroy a target enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. If your Personality is a Deathseeker, gain 2 Honor.
Do I gain the 2 honor if my deathseeker is dishonorable when I target him with this?
Thanks.
What about a strategy card?
Battle: Destroy your target unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality: Destroy a target enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. If your Personality is a Deathseeker, gain 2 Honor.
Do I gain the 2 honor if my deathseeker is dishonorable when I target him with this?
Thanks.
No, and he's still not rehonoured, either.
You don't gain any honour because Before a player gains Honor from an action or trait that ... was performed by one or more of his or her dishonorable Personalities, the Personality is rehonored and the player does not gain the Honor. If, during one of these effects, the rehonoring is negated or otherwise fails, the Honor is still not gained.
This rehonouring effect fails because When an effect is activated, it will only apply to cards that at the time of activation are either in play, or in a temporary focusing, entering-play, or resolution area, unless the effect [does something that doesn't apply here].