L5R CCG Rules board, 18 February 2010 to 14 March 2010
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 18 February 2010
My question is if:
Random dragon peep A bows to Last Step Castle as an open action raises its province strength by x till the end of turn, and I then dishonor him as my limited action.
When it comes to the end of the turn will his controller gain two honor and the personality remain dishonored or will he simply rehonor?
Last step caste: OPEN: Ene if this card is bowed, bow your target personality: Give each of your provinces a strength bonus equal to his base chi. If it is not your turn, before this turn ends gain 2 honor if none of your provinces were destroyed this turn.
-Nate
A player, 18 February 2010
When it comes to the end of the turn will his controller gain two honor and the personality remain dishonored or will he simply rehonor?
REVERSAL: He will not rehonor and his controller gains 2 Honor, per Physically marked card states, Honorable and dishonorable: "Before a player gains Honor from an action that [...] was performed by one or more of his or her dishonorable Personalities, the Personality is rehonored and the player does not gain the Honor."
In this rulebook effect, the conditions about the performing Personalities (dishonorable and under your control) are checked when they perform the action. It does not matter at the moment when the action is about to produce an Honor gain.
I'm a little confused as to why who performed the action for honor gain is long past the action being performed. Is there a specific rule or precedent that this follows? A few of the more recent rulings (Fosuta+enticement, Last One+enticement/Daigotsu) seem to indicate that all effects of the action are traced back to the time that the action was taken.
How would this work if I used an honorable personality to activate the stronghold ability, then my opponent took control of the personality permanently and dishonored him?
Thanks,
A player, 23 February 2010
I apologize for the delay and the mistake, the rules team has discussed those questions and came to the conclusion that, when a condition refers to the occurrence of a past event, any condition on that condition should also refer to the time of the past event. There is a precedent (that I had forgotten) with Bayushi Paneki XP4: in his trait, the condition "that targeted one or more Personalities at Paneki's location" was checked at the moment when those Personalities were targeted; for instance see "Paneki XP4 vs Retreating units".
As a consequence, the rule about rehonoring that I quoted checks that the performing Personalities were dishonorable and under your control at the moment when they performed the action, not when the Honor gain is about to happen. This is a reversal of the ruling above, that I will fix accordingly.
To answer your last question, if you used your Stronghold ability performed by one of your honorable Personalities, then your opponent took control of the performer permanently and dishonored him, the rulebook would not prevent you from gaining 2 Honor because this Personality was honorable and under your control when he performed the action.
A player, 13 March 2010
In reference to this thread on Last Step Castle and Dishonor: What would happen if a dishonorable person performed the Last Step Castle action, then was honorable by the end of the turn?
The sequence of play was:
Scorpion player's turn. Dragon Player bows an dishonorable Murimoto Ichizo for the Last Step Castle action. Scorpion Player targets the same dishonorable Murimoto Ichizo with Pull The String. The Dragon Player seppuku's Murimoto Ichizo , re-honoring him and reducing the loss to 1.
Play passes on both sides, Scorpion Player finishes his Dynasty Phase.
Now, the honor gain from Last Step Castle happens.
1) Does Murimoto Ichizo re-honor (which fails because he's already honorable, and in the discard pile)? 2) Dragon Player gains 2 from Last Step Castle action?
Thanks
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 14 March 2010
What would happen if a dishonorable person performed the Last Step Castle action, then was honorable by the end of the turn?
http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Physically_mark ... shonorable: "Before a player gains Honor from an action or trait that targeted, came from, or was performed by one or more of his or her dishonorable Personalities, the Personality is rehonored and the player does not gain the Honor."