Shiba's Gudiance and the Rule of Presence/Location

L5R CCG Rules board, 16 September 2009 to 21 September 2009

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 16 September 2009

I just want to make sure this doesnt work.

Shiba's Guidance Phoenix Clan Personalities have +1F while their controller controls any Shugenja. Battle/Open: If you are a Phoenix Clan player, discard this card: Bring your target honorably dead Phoenix Clan Personality into play in your home or at the current battlefield, ignoring costs.

Rule of Presence/Location Exception: Battle actions that say they move a unit to the current battlefield are legal to take, regardless of Presence and Location, if the rules of Presence and Location would be satisfied with the unit there.

Am I correct in thinking that because Shiba's Guidance does not specify 'move' it doesn't qualify for the exception if i have no units in the current battlefield?

Alex Jones (rules official), 16 September 2009

I just want to make sure this doesnt work.

Shiba's Guidance Phoenix Clan Personalities have +1F while their controller controls any Shugenja. Battle/Open: If you are a Phoenix Clan player, discard this card: Bring your target honorably dead Phoenix Clan Personality into play in your home or at the current battlefield, ignoring costs.

Rule of Presence/Location Exception: Battle actions that say they move a unit to the current battlefield are legal to take, regardless of Presence and Location, if the rules of Presence and Location would be satisfied with the unit there.

Am I correct in thinking that because Shiba's Guidance does not specify 'move' it doesn't qualify for the exception if i have no units in the current battlefield?

You are correct. This changed with Samurai Edition: It is no longer legal to create a unit in a battlefield where you control no units.

A player, 20 September 2009

Ok, I recently had an odd thing happen. I had an opposed army at a battlefield and I needed to bring a dead personality into play at home. I read Shiba's Guidance which I had in play. It never specifies that I can't bring a guy into play in my home when in a battle. The rule of location, by my understanding, only governs cards in units. Since a dead personality is not in a unit, I don't think it interferes. So, my question is this... Can Shiba's Guidance be used to bring a personality into play in your home even during a battle?

Shiba's Guidance Phoenix Clan Personalities have +1F while their controller controls any Shugenja. Battle/Open: If you are a Phoenix Clan player, discard this card: Bring your target honorably dead Phoenix Clan Personality into play in your home or at the current battlefield, ignoring costs.

Alex Jones (rules official), 21 September 2009

Ok, I recently had an odd thing happen. I had an opposed army at a battlefield and I needed to bring a dead personality into play at home. I read Shiba's Guidance which I had in play. It never specifies that I can't bring a guy into play in my home when in a battle. The rule of location, by my understanding, only governs cards in units. Since a dead personality is not in a unit, I don't think it interferes. So, my question is this... Can Shiba's Guidance be used to bring a personality into play in your home even during a battle?

Shiba's Guidance Phoenix Clan Personalities have +1F while their controller controls any Shugenja. Battle/Open: If you are a Phoenix Clan player, discard this card: Bring your target honorably dead Phoenix Clan Personality into play in your home or at the current battlefield, ignoring costs.

Neither the main text nor the Glossary specify that a Personality must be in play to constitute a unit.

However, the Rule of Location for a card in a unit merely states that it "must be at the current battlefield to be targeted by a Battle action." There is no requirement that the battle or battlefield be affected in any way. Shiba's Guidance explicitly specifies where the Personality it targets must be, so it ignores the Rule of Location: you may bring the Personality into play in your home even when using its ability for a Battle action.