I Will Not Die Alone! and Throwing Knives

References:

I Will Not Die Alone!

Battle: Destroy your target unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality: Destroy a target enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. If your Personality is a Deathseeker, gain 2 Honor.

I was watching a game wherein a Crab player uses this strategy card. He targets Hida Kagura(7F,3C,Flavor Text) with an attached Fubatsu Blade(+3F,+1C) to kill Togashi Nakahara with a Heavenly Daisho of the Dragon with a Farmlands follower attached.

The question is: When is the Force computed? Will it be able to kill Nakahara? (In other words, does the weapon bonus be applied when computing for the force?)

Thank you very much for your answer.

Hey,

here's a question regarding Throwing Knives.

Throwing Knives Battle: Destroy this card: Ranged Attack with strength equal to this Personality's Force. Forceval: +1

Does the +1 force bonus granted by the Throwing Knives count against the strength of the Ranged Attack?

[Mod edit: Thread title updated for merged thread. -ZF]

I am trying to find out the difference between http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78646&start=0 and http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78678#p1032381

How you get the bonus for Items for I will not die alone and not for Throwing knives itself?

Cards:

I Will Not Die Alone!

Battle: Destroy your target unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality: Destroy a target enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. If your Personality is a Deathseeker, gain 2 Honor.

Throwing Knives

Battle: Destroy this card: Ranged Attack with strength equal to this Personality's Force. Forceval: +1

"I Will Not Die Alone checks Force at targeting. The Ranged Attack on Throwing Knives checks the Personality's Force during effects." viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78705

There is no ellaboration why the difference exist.

Is it because it is a ranged attack versus a non-ranged attack?

Or (as I theorize) is it due to the wording "this Personality's Force" versus "your targeted Personality's Force(sic)". It would appear that "targeted" implies at the time of the initial targeting, while "this" implies after paying costs. Unfortunately the ruling I have linked fails to provide any real explanation.

I would like to look at cards in future sets and be able to determine if they are Throwing Knife type cards, or a Die Alone type cards, without having to ask an L5R attorney.

Its almost like you guys are turning into real lawyers, constantly ensuring your own job security by keeping the rules and interpretation thereof as vague as possible.

"I Will Not Die Alone checks Force at targeting. The Ranged Attack on Throwing Knives checks the Personality's Force during effects." There is no ellaboration why the difference exist.

Let me remind you of the sequence to follow when you take an action that my esteemed colleague noted there: A. Announce the action (and check the Good Faith Rule) B. Required targeting C. Pay costs D. Action resolution E. Action ends

Let's see how to play both cards according to this sequence.

Throwing Knives Battle: Destroy this card: Ranged Attack with strength equal to this Personality’s Force. A. You announce that you are taking the Battle action on your Throwing Knives. B. You choose the required target: according to the glossary, it must be a Follower or a Personality without Followers in the current enemy army. Note that the targeted card's Force does not matter here, nor the strength of the Ranged Attack. C. You pay the mandatory cost: you destroy Throwing Knives. D. The action resolves: according to the glossary, if the targeted card's Force is equal to or less than the strength of the Ranged Attack, you destroy it. The card text states that the strength is equal to this Personality’s Force but your Throwing Knives has just been destroyed so its Force modifier is no longer added to this Personality's Force. E. The action ends.

I will not Die Alone Battle: Destroy your target unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality: Destroy a target enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. If your Personality is a Deathseeker, gain 2 Honor. A. You announce that you are taking the Battle action on your I will not Die Alone. B. You choose the required targets: one of your unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality, then an enemy unit with total Force less than the Force plus Chi of your targeted Personality. Note that your targeted card's Force and Chi and the targeted enemy unit's total Force explicitly matter here. C. You pay the mandatory cost: you destroy your targeted unbowed Berserker or Deathseeker Personality. D. The action resolves: you destroy the targeted enemy unit, then if your Personality is a Deathseeker you gain 2 Honor. E. The action ends.

Is it because it is a ranged attack versus a non-ranged attack?

No, it is because the target of a Ranged Attack has no requirement about its Force compared to the strength of the Ranged Attack: for instance it is useless but legal to make a Ranged 2 Attack against a card with 20 Force, it is not legal to target such a mighty Personality with I Will Not Die Alone if this action is performed by a 7F/1C Berserker or Deathseeker.

I would like to look at cards in future sets and be able to determine if they are Throwing Knife type cards, or a Die Alone type cards, without having to ask an L5R attorney.

May I suggest you to read the Celestial PDF rulebook again, especially on pages 22 to 24 that deal with how to take an action?