A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 9 July 2009
I always try to be within the rules to help out my friends and our good noobs. So, you'll see me here asking a lot kind of question. Sorry 'bout this.
Now, to the question:
Why is Daigotsu's ability not ending at the end of the turn (assuming he negates de personality's death somehow) and Veiled Menace (viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77251) does? I always thought that only effects that changes stats or "orientation" (bowed, unbowed, dishonored...) of a Personality or that gives a new ability needed to be phrased "until the end of the game" to not end at the turn. I'm wrong, I know, but why? Where is the difference I fail to see?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 9 July 2009
I always try to be within the rules to help out my friends and our good noobs. So, you'll see me here asking a lot kind of question. Sorry 'bout this.
No problem. It's our job to answer, after all.
Now, to the question:
Why is Daigotsu's ability not ending at the end of the turn (assuming he negates de personality's death somehow) and Veiled Menace (viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77251) does?
Effects with an ongoing duration end at the end of turn by default. Veiled Menace creates an ongoing effect of (in the roughest terms) "each time X happens, Y happens". Instantaneous effects, like the change of control brought on by Daigotsu, have no duration. Therefore, they also have no duration that can expire. Now, the "Y happens" in my rough example might be (and in the case of Veiled Menace, IS) an instantaneous effect, but the effect that is causing it to periodically occur has a duration that ends.
I always thought that only effects that changes stats or "orientation" (bowed, unbowed, dishonored...) of a Personality or that gives a new ability needed to be phrased "until the end of the game" to not end at the turn.
It's here that you're apparently muddied up. Changes to stats, like Force or Chi bonuses or penalities, are ongoing and may have a duration. Changes like bowing, dishonoring, gains/losses of Honor and changing control are all instantaneous and never "expire"; it would take another, separate effect to "undo" them (which, in the case of bowing, is why we have a Straighten Phase at all).
I hope that all helps clarify the matter for you.