A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 13 March 2009
Concealed Archers: Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in an unit not in the current battlefield. Add one to the strength of each of the ability’s Ranged Attacks if the unit’s Personality is Naga. Lose 2 honor.
Who, if anyone, is performing this action?
The follow up action is performed by the personality with the ranged attack; or the personality who has the item/spell granting the ranged attack attached to him; or the follower with the ranged attack correct?
When using the ranged attack on one of your target cards, does this use count for the once per turn rule? (I can't think of why it wouldn't, but I thought I'd ask)
Now for a timing question including the card Pincers and Tail:
Reaction: After a Battle action targeting one of your Personalities resolves, if this card is in your hand: Attach it to him, paying 2 less Gold. Battle: Bow and destroy this card: Ranged 3 Attack. You may compare this attack's strength against the target's Chi instead of Force if he is a Personality.
Question A: When I target my personality not at the battlefeild may I react with Pincers and Tails and pay 2 gold to give that personality Pincer's and Tail?
Assuming yes for the above, may I then proceed to use the battle ranged attack on pincers and tail?
Assuming no for the above and yes to question A, if I have a Pincers and Tail attached to my personality not at the battlefeild may i use it's ranged attack bility, thus destroying pincers and Tail, and then equip a pincer and tail to said personality?
Now for battle equip fun (first with Hongo):
Hongo uses his battle action.
Battle: Attach a target Weapon from your hand to Hongo.
May I react and equip Pincers and Tail using it's reaction? (Note: Hongo is a kensai personality)
What if I had equipped an attachment from my hand during battle in another manner, such as the rulebook effect modified by Eastern Hub Port?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 13 March 2009
Concealed Archers: Who is performing this action?
http://rules.l5r.com/FAQ#What_performs_an_action.3F
"Personalities perform actions printed on them." Does not apply.
"Followers perform actions printed on them." Does not apply.
"Action on Items or Spells are performed by their Personality." Does not apply.
"Personalities and Followers perform actions if they are targeted between the two colons of an action." Does not apply, though the card formatting has changed so it's tricky to tell. The old standard was that things that appeared before "to" were costs.
"Nobody performs an action if it targets only as an effect (that is, isn't printed between two colons) or doesn't target." This is the only one left.
When using the ranged attack on one of your target cards, does this use count for the once per turn rule?
Yes.
Pincers and Tail: When I target my personality not at the battlefield may I react with Pincers and Tails and pay 2 gold to give that personality Pincer's and Tail?
Yes.
(M)ay I then proceed to use the battle ranged attack on pincers and tail?
I am not clear what you mean by "proceed" here. The Battle action is a separate action, not an effect of the Reaction. I thought the Personality was not at the current battlefield, which would make using the ability difficult. Ranged attacks must card cards in the current enemy army, and I don't see how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location (http://rules.l5r.com/Battles#Rule_of_Location).
(I)f I have a Pincers and Tail attached to my personality not at the battlefield may i use it's ranged attack ability, thus destroying pincers and Tail, and then equip a pincer and tail to said personality?
Not sure how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location.
Hongo uses his battle action. May I react and equip Pincers and Tail using it's reaction?
No. Hongo's ability does not target him.
What if I had equipped an attachment from my hand during battle in another manner(?)
Depends on whether it targets the Personality.
A player, 13 March 2009
New questions:
I was never really clear on this, do atachments grant the personality the ability printed on them, or do atachments use the ability themselves and the personality they're equipped to just perform it?
Me hoping I'm clearer this time around:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74612
Nezumi tomarrow seeker wrote: (M)ay I then proceed to use the battle ranged attack on pincers and tail? I am not clear what you mean by "proceed" here. The Battle action is a separate action, not an effect of the Reaction. I thought the Personality was not at the current battlefield, which would make using the ability difficult. Ranged attacks must card cards in the current enemy army, and I don't see how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location (http://rules.l5r.com/Battles#Rule_of_Location).
I had thought I previously Implied I was using the pincers and tails with concealed archer's effect. I apologize for not making myself clearer. Concealed Archers's relevent text again:
Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in an unit not in the current battlefield.
Since card effects override the comprehensive rules, I don't need to follow the rule of location for the ranged attack action granted by Concealed Archers. I think?
The issue with this question (I think) isn't location, it is probably me not understanding how item's actions work with a personality. I had thought they gave the action to the personality, thus I would activate concealed archers, react and equip pincers and tails and then use pincers and tail's battle action as the ranged attack which concealed archers allows me to use, which I previously assumed the personality was granted by the item.
Nezumi tomarrow seeker wrote: (I)f I have a Pincers and Tail attached to my personality not at the battlefield may i use it's ranged attack ability, thus destroying pincers and Tail, and then equip a pincer and tail to said personality? Not sure how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location.
Concealed Archers allows me to use that action. (I think) This question was set up in casethe preivious set up didn't work because of some timing issue with me not having the ranged attack before anouncing concealed archer. It assumes, like the above that the personality is granted the action by the item, which is probably wrong.
this senario would hypothetically go like such: Concealed archers, targing Guy A, destroying Pincers and Tail, reacting to the targeting of guy A with a second pincers and tail.
Alex Jones (rules official), 14 March 2009
New questions:
I was never really clear on this, do atachments grant the personality the ability printed on them, or do atachments use the ability themselves and the personality they're equipped to just perform it?
Me hoping I'm clearer this time around:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74612
Nezumi tomarrow seeker wrote: (M)ay I then proceed to use the battle ranged attack on pincers and tail? I am not clear what you mean by "proceed" here. The Battle action is a separate action, not an effect of the Reaction. I thought the Personality was not at the current battlefield, which would make using the ability difficult. Ranged attacks must card cards in the current enemy army, and I don't see how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location (http://rules.l5r.com/Battles#Rule_of_Location).
I had thought I previously Implied I was using the pincers and tails with concealed archer's effect. I apologize for not making myself clearer. Concealed Archers's relevent text again:
Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in an unit not in the current battlefield.
Since card effects override the comprehensive rules, I don't need to follow the rule of location for the ranged attack action granted by Concealed Archers. I think?
The issue with this question (I think) isn't location, it is probably me not understanding how item's actions work with a personality. I had thought they gave the action to the personality, thus I would activate concealed archers, react and equip pincers and tails and then use pincers and tail's battle action as the ranged attack which concealed archers allows me to use, which I previously assumed the personality was granted by the item.
Nezumi tomarrow seeker wrote: (I)f I have a Pincers and Tail attached to my personality not at the battlefield may i use it's ranged attack ability, thus destroying pincers and Tail, and then equip a pincer and tail to said personality? Not sure how you'll fulfill the Rule of Location.
Concealed Archers allows me to use that action. (I think) This question was set up in casethe preivious set up didn't work because of some timing issue with me not having the ranged attack before anouncing concealed archer. It assumes, like the above that the personality is granted the action by the item, which is probably wrong.
this senario would hypothetically go like such: Concealed archers, targing Guy A, destroying Pincers and Tail, reacting to the targeting of guy A with a second pincers and tail.
Do attachments use the ability themselves and the personality they're equipped to just perform it?
In essence, yes.
Concealed Archers' relevant text again:
Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in a unit not in the current battlefield.
Since card effects override the comprehensive rules, I don't need to follow the rule of location for the ranged attack action granted by Concealed Archers.
Correct. However, you must target a card in play during Required Targetting: "one of your target cards in a unit not in the current battlefield."
The issue with this question (I think) isn't location, it is probably me not understanding how item's actions work with a personality. I had thought they gave the action to the personality, thus I would activate concealed archers, react and equip pincers and tails and then use pincers and tail's battle action as the ranged attack which concealed archers allows me to use, which I previously assumed the personality was granted by the item.
No. If you want to use the Battle ability on Pincers and Tail, you must be able to target it before resolving the effects of Concealed Archers, which you can't do because it isn't in play yet.
A player, 14 March 2009
Because somebody is going to follow up and it may as well be me with hyper-legal text: "Concealed Archers: Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in an unit not in the current battlefield. Add one to the strength of each of the ability’s Ranged Attacks if the unit’s Personality is Naga. Lose 2 honor." The card targeted by Concealed Archers must be in play when the action of Concealed Archers is played, correct? (If you cannot target a card in a unit not at the current battlefield with a ranged attack, you may not play Concealed Archers, regardless of how many reactions you have to a Battle Action targeting.) For 100% confirmation, you may not use Concealed Archers to trigger a reaction "Attach this item" on any attachment and use that attachment for a ranged attack; you can only use abilities already in play and not at the current battlefield when you choose a target for Concealed Archers. Target-Attach-Use attachment's ranged attack is 100% illegal (In the SE rulesspace) if done via Concealed Archers, correct? You could, theoretically, target a personality with a ranged attack action (Tsuruchi Bob, or Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) with Concealed Archers, then use optional reactions such as Pincer and Tail to equip/attach e.g. Pincer and Tail. You would still be required to use a ranged attack action on the previously targeted card (Tsuruchi Bob, or Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) with a ranged attack prior to the attachment of any optional reaction card like Pincers and Tail (100% unable to use the action ON Pincers and Tail for a Concealed Archers which allowed the attachment of said Pincers and Tail?) and be unable to use any sort of ranged attack action on said attached card (or 100% unable to attach Pincers and Tail if Concealed Archers' target card is Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) for the additional action of Concealed Archers.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 14 March 2009
Because somebody is going to follow up and it may as well be me with hyper-legal text: "Concealed Archers: Battle: You may take an additional action to use a Battle ability with a Ranged Attack effect on one of your target cards in an unit not in the current battlefield. Add one to the strength of each of the ability’s Ranged Attacks if the unit’s Personality is Naga. Lose 2 honor." The card targeted by Concealed Archers must be in play when the action of Concealed Archers is played, correct? (If you cannot target a card in a unit not at the current battlefield with a ranged attack, you may not play Concealed Archers, regardless of how many reactions you have to a Battle Action targeting.) For 100% confirmation, you may not use Concealed Archers to trigger a reaction "Attach this item" on any attachment and use that attachment for a ranged attack; you can only use abilities already in play and not at the current battlefield when you choose a target for Concealed Archers. Target-Attach-Use attachment's ranged attack is 100% illegal (In the SE rulesspace) if done via Concealed Archers, correct? You could, theoretically, target a personality with a ranged attack action (Tsuruchi Bob, or Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) with Concealed Archers, then use optional reactions such as Pincer and Tail to equip/attach e.g. Pincer and Tail. You would still be required to use a ranged attack action on the previously targeted card (Tsuruchi Bob, or Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) with a ranged attack prior to the attachment of any optional reaction card like Pincers and Tail (100% unable to use the action ON Pincers and Tail for a Concealed Archers which allowed the attachment of said Pincers and Tail?) and be unable to use any sort of ranged attack action on said attached card (or 100% unable to attach Pincers and Tail if Concealed Archers' target card is Hida Jim's Taoist Archers) for the additional action of Concealed Archers.
Yes, all of that is correct.