Commanding Favor, Claiming the Throne

L5R CCG Rules board, 28 February 2009 to 7 March 2009

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 28 February 2009

Does discarding Commanding Favor count for discarding the imperial favor for Claiming the Throne? I ask because it counts for paying a cost, but Claiming doesn't read as a cost.

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 28 February 2009

Does discarding Commanding Favor count for discarding the imperial favor for Claiming the Throne? I ask because it counts for paying a cost, but Claiming doesn't read as a cost.

You are correct.

Claiming the Throne does not explicitly state that discarding the Imperial Favor is a cost.

It is an effect of the event.

You may not discard Commanding Favor for the purposes of Claiming the Throne's effect.

A player, 28 February 2009

If Claiming the Throne does not actually have any costs (as per ruling here http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74318)

Can you use Strength of the Forge to pay 2 gold for it? And if so, does that not imply that Claiming the Throne requires a cost?

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 1 March 2009

If Claiming the Throne does not actually have any costs (as per ruling here http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74318)

Can you use Strength of the Forge to pay 2 gold for it? And if so, does that not imply that Claiming the Throne requires a cost?

You may not bow Strength of the Forge to pay 2G for the 10G payment option in Claiming the Throne.

A player, 1 March 2009

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74318

http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Traits "Gold-producing cards also follow special rules for their traits that produce Gold. Gold-producing holdings often have traits written as “Bow this card: Produce X Gold” which is shorthand for, “When paying a Gold cost, you may bow this card: Produce X Gold.”"

http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_S#Strength_of_the_Forge "Earth Reaction: When paying a Gold cost, bow this Shugenja: Produce 2 Gold." [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007]"

If Strength of the Forge cannot be used to pay 2g towards the "Pay 10 gold" clause of Claiming the Throne, and holdings that have traits written as "Bow this card: Produce X Gold" are to be read as "When paying a Gold Cost, you may bow this card: Produce X Gold.", does that also mean that holding traits cannot be used to pay gold towards the "Pay 10 gold" clause of Claiming the Throne?

How, exactly, is a player to pay 10 gold without using effects that refer to "When paying a Gold Cost"?

Edit: In addition, if discarding the favor is not a cost of the event's text but instead is an effect of the event, then by the text of http://rules.l5r.com/Non-card_physical_game_elements won't it always be possible for the player resolving the event to discard the favor as an effect, regardless of who controls the favor? "Discarding the Favor is a cost of various actions, including the default Imperial Favor actions available to all players. To discard the Favor as a cost means to pass it from your control to the uncontrolled state. By contrast, effects that discard the Favor will make the favor uncontrolled no matter who controls it."

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 2 March 2009

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74318

http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Traits "Gold-producing cards also follow special rules for their traits that produce Gold. Gold-producing holdings often have traits written as “Bow this card: Produce X Gold” which is shorthand for, “When paying a Gold cost, you may bow this card: Produce X Gold.”"

http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_S#Strength_of_the_Forge "Earth Reaction: When paying a Gold cost, bow this Shugenja: Produce 2 Gold." [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007]"

If Strength of the Forge cannot be used to pay 2g towards the "Pay 10 gold" clause of Claiming the Throne, and holdings that have traits written as "Bow this card: Produce X Gold" are to be read as "When paying a Gold Cost, you may bow this card: Produce X Gold.", does that also mean that holding traits cannot be used to pay gold towards the "Pay 10 gold" clause of Claiming the Throne?

How, exactly, is a player to pay 10 gold without using effects that refer to "When paying a Gold Cost"?

Edit: In addition, if discarding the favor is not a cost of the event's text but instead is an effect of the event, then by the text of http://rules.l5r.com/Non-card_physical_game_elements won't it always be possible for the player resolving the event to discard the favor as an effect, regardless of who controls the favor? "Discarding the Favor is a cost of various actions, including the default Imperial Favor actions available to all players. To discard the Favor as a cost means to pass it from your control to the uncontrolled state. By contrast, effects that discard the Favor will make the favor uncontrolled no matter who controls it."

Under discussion.

Roger Giner-Sorolla (rules official), 7 March 2009

Resolved with technical errata. The Gold payment and favor discard are now costs. This means that alternate means of paying a cost of discarding the Favor can be used, but if you are paying the cost normally, you must control the Favor to discard it.