The Quelsaurth and Determination

L5R CCG Rules board, 8 January 2009

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 8 January 2009

The Quelsaurth has the Trait: The Quelsaurth cannot gain Shadowlands

The Tale of Tsukuro says that it gives the targeted personality Shadowlands permanently.

I know that if I target The Quelsaurth with The Tale of Tsukuro, It doesn't gain Shadowlands, so it can only use the ability to move Shadowlands personalities into it's battlefield.

If I play The Tale of Tsukuro, target The Quelsaurth, and react with Determination, does The Tale of Tsukuro give The Quelsaurth Shadowlands?

I ask because the ongoing effect of the permanent gain of Shadowlands lasts longer than the essentially temporary bypass granted by Determination to kill actions such as Hired Killer for effecting Hida Sozen XP.

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 8 January 2009

The Quelsaurth has the Trait: The Quelsaurth cannot gain Shadowlands

The Tale of Tsukuro says that it gives the targeted personality Shadowlands permanently.

I know that if I target The Quelsaurth with The Tale of Tsukuro, It doesn't gain Shadowlands, so it can only use the ability to move Shadowlands personalities into it's battlefield.

If I play The Tale of Tsukuro, target The Quelsaurth, and react with Determination, does The Tale of Tsukuro give The Quelsaurth Shadowlands?

I ask because the ongoing effect of the permanent gain of Shadowlands lasts longer than the essentially temporary bypass granted by Determination to kill actions such as Hired Killer for effecting Hida Sozen XP.

If you use Determination on The Tale of Tsukuro The effect gives The Quelsaruth the Shadowlands keyword, permanently. The trait of "The Quelsaruth cannot gain Shadowlands" reasserts itself, but since The Quelsaruth already has the Shadowlands keyword, the trait will do nothing unless you remove the Shadowlands keyword somehow.

Permanent effects (denoted by "Permanent" in card text) maintain their permanent duration even after Determination's anti-negation effect wears out at the end of a turn.

EDIT: Fixed ruling based on Quelsaruth's actual trait text.