Mantis Detachment

L5R CCG Rules board, 27 May 2008 to 29 May 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 27 May 2008

I have a question on the legality of Mantis Detachment's Reaction.

First the text : "Reaction: After this battle resolution at a province that was not destroyed, if this card was in your army during resolution: Permanently give the province -2 strength. Straighten this unit after the Attack Phase ends."

"The rule (in the battles) :

After Resolution

After a battle’s Resolution Segment ends, or after Resolution would end if it is somehow avoided, follow steps A through C in order.

A. Regardless of who wins, loses, or ties in the battle, all surviving attacking and allied units return home, and these units are then bowed by the battle’s resolution if they returned home. "

It seems to me that Mantis Detachment would be bowed by the battle before it has the opportunity of using its reaction. Therefore it seems that Mantis Detachment's Reaction is never legal to use. Does that mean that this card falls under the same ruling as Sasada and therefore can use its Reaction even if bowed, or does that mean that Mantis Detachment is a follower with no action?

Alex Jones (rules official), 29 May 2008

I have a question on the legality of Mantis Detachment's Reaction.

First the text : "Reaction: After this battle resolution at a province that was not destroyed, if this card was in your army during resolution: Permanently give the province -2 strength. Straighten this unit after the Attack Phase ends."

"The rule (in the battles) :

After Resolution

After a battle’s Resolution Segment ends, or after Resolution would end if it is somehow avoided, follow steps A through C in order.

A. Regardless of who wins, loses, or ties in the battle, all surviving attacking and allied units return home, and these units are then bowed by the battle’s resolution if they returned home. "

It seems to me that Mantis Detachment would be bowed by the battle before it has the opportunity of using its reaction. Therefore it seems that Mantis Detachment's Reaction is never legal to use. Does that mean that this card falls under the same ruling as Sasada and therefore can use its Reaction even if bowed, or does that mean that Mantis Detachment is a follower with no action?

The procedure at the end of a battle - between the end of the Resolution Segment and the end of the Battle - has been clarified. See Final Steps.

The trigger for Mantis Detachment's Reaction is after the Resolution Segment, before Final Steps. In particular, it is before attacking units return home bowed.