Kharmic Confrontation and attachments

L5R CCG Rules board, 11 May 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 11 May 2008

If I am attacking, and I play Kharmic Confrontation, targeting my opponents personality with attachments, what happens to the attachments when he is swapped into the providence?

What if the guy I'm swapping is dishonored, is he still dishonored, or rehonored?

What if said person was targeted with Arrival of the Obsidian Champion? Or Utter Defeat?

Last (sorry). What if the target to be swapped in is a token (created personality) ?

[Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 11 May 2008

If I am attacking, and I play Kharmic Confrontation, targeting my opponents personality with attachments, what happens to the attachments when he is swapped into the providence?

First of all, he's not being swapped into Rhode Island.

Second, the (Discard his attached cards.) reminder text is still valid.

Long explanation of that, in case anyone wants to argue the point: I realize that the CR says "When a Personality leaves play, all his attached cards leave play in the same manner as he did" without consideration for this one-off case of the Personality going into a province. But, Fate cards can't be in provinces, so the same thing would happen to them that would happen to a Personality that couldn't be in the province (due to, for example, Akuma no Oni being Kharmic'd in from it causing it to cease to be); they'd stay in play. BUT, "Attachments cannot be in play without being attached to a Personality unless an effect specifically allows this. An attachment that finds itself in play without a Personality (for example, one whose destruction was prevented but its Personality's destruction was not), and without an effect allowing this state, is immediately and continually discarded." (Citation)

What if the guy I'm swapping is dishonored, is he still dishonored, or rehonored? What if said person was targeted with Arrival of the Obsidian Champion? Or Utter Defeat?

I believe this covers all 3 of the above questions (as the second two were follow-ups, in case I said "rehonored", which I'm not):

http://rules.l5r.com/Physically_marked_card_states#Honorable_and_dishonorable: "A Personality out of play can be dishonorable if he or she is face-up. Leaving or entering play does not change a Personality’s dishonorable or honorable status."

Last (sorry). What if the target to be swapped in is a token (created personality) ?

First, token =/= created Personality. Created cards are cards. Tokens are never cards. This is true even in Legacy Format:

http://rules.l5r.com/Older_Cards#For_cards_printed_prior_to_KHAN.27S_DEFIANCE: "Things that say they create tokens with a card type (such as “Follower tokens”) create cards of that type instead of tokens. Likewise, any text that refers to a "token" or "non-token" card type should be read as referring to "created" or "non-created"."

And, second, http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_C#Created_cards: "Created cards cannot exist out of play."

So, this would happen. (For Lotus/Diamond card questions, it doesn't hurt to search http://www.alderac.com/forumold/; just be mindful of rules changes that may affect what you read).