Unshakable & Courage in Death

L5R CCG Rules board, 9 April 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 9 April 2008

Put this up elsewhere, but was unable to reach a conclusion.

"Unshakable" -- Tactical Battle: Target an Action card in your discard pile. Play it for one of its Battle abilities as an additional action. Remove this card and the target card from the game, even if out of play, after that action ends. (Observe restrictions on the ability's number of uses, such as the default "once per turn.") "Courage in Death" --Reaction: Before one of your Personalities is destroyed during battle: Give another target Personality a Force bonus equal to your Personality's Chi. If you are a Crab Clan player, delay your Personality's destruction until after the battle ends.

Due to Unshakable's lack of colon to create specific costs, as I understand it everything listed on Unshakable is an effect. Here's the question:

Unshakable can target a copy of Courage in Death in the discard pile that has resolved this turn. What happens next? A) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game after Courage in Death's delayed effect ends at the normal time. B) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Neither Unshakable nor Courage in Death are removed from the game because Courage in Death does not have an "ending" trigger based off of Unshakable's timing. C) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game immediately following the targeting, as Courage in Death has no legal action which can resolve, regardless of once-per-turn.

GENERALIZATION QUESTION: If Unshakable targets an Action card without a Battle action that can be resolved, does Unshakable fizzle and leave itself in the discard rather than remove itself from the game due to never reaching the necessary timing trigger? (I ask this in all seriousness for multiple reasons, primarily Unshakable being much easier to play "pointlessly" to satisfy the Ring of Water.)

ALTERNATE GENERALIZATION QUESTION: As the targeting is not behind a colon, is it a cost that must be satisfied, or is it an effect targeting that can fail? Can I simply toss Unshakable away as a Tactical Battle action with no legal targets in the discard pile?

Martin Lund (rules official), 9 April 2008

Put this up elsewhere, but was unable to reach a conclusion.

"Unshakable" -- Tactical Battle: Target an Action card in your discard pile. Play it for one of its Battle abilities as an additional action. Remove this card and the target card from the game, even if out of play, after that action ends. (Observe restrictions on the ability's number of uses, such as the default "once per turn.") "Courage in Death" --Reaction: Before one of your Personalities is destroyed during battle: Give another target Personality a Force bonus equal to your Personality's Chi. If you are a Crab Clan player, delay your Personality's destruction until after the battle ends.

Due to Unshakable's lack of colon to create specific costs, as I understand it everything listed on Unshakable is an effect. Here's the question:

Unshakable can target a copy of Courage in Death in the discard pile that has resolved this turn. What happens next? A) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game after Courage in Death's delayed effect ends at the normal time. B) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Neither Unshakable nor Courage in Death are removed from the game because Courage in Death does not have an "ending" trigger based off of Unshakable's timing. C) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game immediately following the targeting, as Courage in Death has no legal action which can resolve, regardless of once-per-turn.

GENERALIZATION QUESTION: If Unshakable targets an Action card without a Battle action that can be resolved, does Unshakable fizzle and leave itself in the discard rather than remove itself from the game due to never reaching the necessary timing trigger? (I ask this in all seriousness for multiple reasons, primarily Unshakable being much easier to play "pointlessly" to satisfy the Ring of Water.)

ALTERNATE GENERALIZATION QUESTION: As the targeting is not behind a colon, is it a cost that must be satisfied, or is it an effect targeting that can fail? Can I simply toss Unshakable away as a Tactical Battle action with no legal targets in the discard pile?

You know, this seems like it would fall under the Good Faith Rule.

If it were a question of a card that you were supposed to put into play, rather than simply play for an action, the Good Faith Rule as it already reads would prohibit playing Unshakable.

I'll bring it up to the Rules Team to see if an extension / clarification of the Good Faith Rule can cover this.

For the time being, assume you can't choose an Action Card that you can't play in good faith.