A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 12 November 2007
My one Samurai personality, let's say Utaku Koana, is defending alone and unbowed at a battlefield where she is opposing Moto Chagatai Experienced 4. I want to send him back home with Courtesy but I know his trait prevents my actions from moving him so, before announcing Courtesy, I play Determination in order to prevent Courtesy's targeting from being changed and its effects from being negated by Chagatai's trait. Unfortunately my opponent reacts to my Determination by playing True Strength's Reaction, thus destroying my lonely Samurai, leaving me with no Personality. How shall we deal with this situation please ?
1) Determination is played before announcing Courtesy and Courtesy is no longer legal so I must choose another action to announce, which will be affected by Determination, if any one is legal (e.g. Refugees), or pass ; my opponent can call a judge to check I could legally play Determination before its True Strength and, if I pass, to check I can play no other legal action, but I am not compelled to tell him which action I was about to take.
2) Determination is played before announcing Courtesy and Courtesy is no longer legal so I can choose another action to announce or pass, and I can pass even if I could take another legal action.
3) I can't play Determination if I don't show which action I am about to take, so I still play Courtesy but I fail to find its first target so Courtesy doesn't resolve.
4) I can't play Determination if I don't show which action I am about to take, so I still play Courtesy but I check the Good Faith Rule after announcing it (so after Determination has resolved), the Good Faith Rule says it is a play mistake to take an action if a mandatory target can't be chosen so the Courtesy card is revealed but it returns to my hand and I can take another action or pass.
5) Something else happen. Please explain.
Thanks a lot.
Martin Lund (rules official), 19 November 2007
My one Samurai personality, let's say Utaku Koana, is defending alone and unbowed at a battlefield where she is opposing Moto Chagatai Experienced 4. I want to send him back home with Courtesy but I know his trait prevents my actions from moving him so, before announcing Courtesy, I play Determination in order to prevent Courtesy's targeting from being changed and its effects from being negated by Chagatai's trait. Unfortunately my opponent reacts to my Determination by playing True Strength's Reaction, thus destroying my lonely Samurai, leaving me with no Personality. How shall we deal with this situation please ?
1) Determination is played before announcing Courtesy and Courtesy is no longer legal so I must choose another action to announce, which will be affected by Determination, if any one is legal (e.g. Refugees), or pass ; my opponent can call a judge to check I could legally play Determination before its True Strength and, if I pass, to check I can play no other legal action, but I am not compelled to tell him which action I was about to take.
2) Determination is played before announcing Courtesy and Courtesy is no longer legal so I can choose another action to announce or pass, and I can pass even if I could take another legal action.
3) I can't play Determination if I don't show which action I am about to take, so I still play Courtesy but I fail to find its first target so Courtesy doesn't resolve.
4) I can't play Determination if I don't show which action I am about to take, so I still play Courtesy but I check the Good Faith Rule after announcing it (so after Determination has resolved), the Good Faith Rule says it is a play mistake to take an action if a mandatory target can't be chosen so the Courtesy card is revealed but it returns to my hand and I can take another action or pass.
5) Something else happen. Please explain.
Thanks a lot.
Good question.
I'm going to have to pass this up to the whole team, Roger included, as this requires an addition to the rules to cover the hedge case.
In the mean-time, the best suggestion I have for getting through this situation if it comes up in a game between now and then is this:
Once you play and resolve a "Before announcing," trigger, you've got to try to announce something to validate that trigger (even if it isn't what you originally intended to announce). If you've got no means to do so because of a Reaction or Trigger that made the originally intended play illegal, then and only then can you pass without taking the required Action. In a casual game you're on the honor system. In a tournament game, call over a judge and explain what took place and show him your board / hand so he can verify that you've got no legal play.
The real priorities here are to avoid creating a retroactively illegal play and move play along as cleanly as possible without creating an exploit.
Like I mentioned, the Rules Team will see exactly what rule needs to go into the Comprehensive Rules - but in the meantime this Ruling should see you through.