Determination, Bayushi Tsimaru XP, Targeting/Effects

L5R CCG Rules board, 10 September 2007

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 10 September 2007

Relevant Text: Bayushi Tsimaru XP: Other players can not target Tsimaru with Political actions.

Determination: Dark Virtue Reaction: Before you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action can not have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.

Bayushi Saya: Political Open: Target a Personality. After the next time this turn his controller assigns him or an action resolves that he performed, his controller loses Honor equal to his Personal Honor, then he is dishonored.

Hello! My question is this. I play Determination, and then announce that I am taking Bayushi Saya's Open action. For abilities and actions such as Bayushi Saya's, where targeting is performed in the effects portion of the card, would the application of Determination allow the targeting of Bayushi Tsimaru XP, since the action's effects can not be negated?

If not, are there any circumstances under the effects of Determination where he could be a legal target?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 10 September 2007

I play Determination, and then announce that I am taking Bayushi Saya's Open action. For abilities and actions such as Bayushi Saya's, where targeting is performed in the effects portion of the card, would the application of Determination allow the targeting of Bayushi Tsimaru XP, since the action's effects can not be negated?

No. http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Definition_of_effects: "Restrictions, targeting, and costs are not effects." (EMphasis added.)

If not, are there any circumstances under the effects of Determination where he could be a legal target?

You want Leon for that question, not the Deputy Rules Guys. My guess is to file under D for "Doubtful."