A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 11 April 2005
I looked in Accumulated rulings, and couldn't find a direct answer to this question:
Can a person target a dishonored personality to be dishonored by an action as an effect of a card played
The reason I ask is because wouldn't targeting a dishonored personality to become dishonored as an effect of a card defy the ruling that a person can not take an action he knows will fail?
This is the confusion I have about Foolish words, for example. I don't really see any precedent, and would like this to be explained in a manner which will prevent confusion on this card in the future.
So: Can you play Foolish words on dishonored people to effectively move them into a battle. Or, can the personalities be dishonored again by foolish words, thus preventing their moving.
Basically this boils down to whether a person who is already dishonored, can be made dishonored again by an action or effect, or if the dishonoring simply re-occurs, but is not considered to have been performed by the second or later dishonoring effect.
I know you guys are all very busy, but a detailed answer on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.[/i]
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 12 April 2005
I looked in Accumulated rulings, and couldn't find a direct answer to this question:
Can a person target a dishonored personality to be dishonored by an action as an effect of a card played
The reason I ask is because wouldn't targeting a dishonored personality to become dishonored as an effect of a card defy the ruling that a person can not take an action he knows will fail?
This is the confusion I have about Foolish words, for example. I don't really see any precedent, and would like this to be explained in a manner which will prevent confusion on this card in the future.
So: Can you play Foolish words on dishonored people to effectively move them into a battle. Or, can the personalities be dishonored again by foolish words, thus preventing their moving.
Basically this boils down to whether a person who is already dishonored, can be made dishonored again by an action or effect, or if the dishonoring simply re-occurs, but is not considered to have been performed by the second or later dishonoring effect.
I know you guys are all very busy, but a detailed answer on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.[/i]
The current ruling is yes, you can opt to dishonor someone who is already dishonored, but the Rules Junta is working on this.
Jeff Alexander (rules official), 12 April 2005
The reason I ask is because wouldn't targeting a dishonored personality to become dishonored as an effect of a card defy the ruling that a person can not take an action he knows will fail?
There is no such ruling. It has never been illegal to take an action just because it won't do anything. We tried to add that rule once and discovered that it both was incredibly complicated to properly define and did not add anything to the game.
What is illegal is choosing something that won't produce an effect when you are forced to do something and other options exist that will produce an effect.
Example: If another player takes an action against you that says
"Target a player. He bows a Personality he controls."
you cannot try to bow someone who is already bowed or who has a restriction against bowing.
On the other hand, if he used this action on you:
"Target a player. He targets a Personality he controls. Bow it."
You could target a bowed Personality. All you were forced to do was "target a Personality [you] control", and you did that. What happens next doesn't matter.
This is the confusion I have about Foolish words, for example. I don't really see any precedent, and would like this to be explained in a manner which will prevent confusion on this card in the future.
So: Can you play Foolish words on dishonored people to effectively move them into a battle. Or, can the personalities be dishonored again by foolish words, thus preventing their moving.
Basically this boils down to whether a person who is already dishonored, can be made dishonored again by an action or effect, or if the dishonoring simply re-occurs, but is not considered to have been performed by the second or later dishonoring effect.
Foolish Words cannot dishonor someone who is already dishonored, and its movement depends on whether it dishonored its targets. [card text] If used on someone who is already dishonored, it will move that Personality.