Hayaku is Daidoji

If a card, such as "Strike and Move", requires that it be formed by a Daidoji personality, may Doji Hayaku, with the Daidoji Family Founder trait, meet that particular requirement?

I know that according to the accumulated rulings, Family name is derived from title alone. However, I have found no reference to family names being reserved game terms in any way. Since the requirement does not call for "a Daidoji Family personality"(which Hayaku is not) but rather "a Daidoji Personality"(which is a requirement Hayaku appears to meet, due to his triat), would he meet this particular aspect of the formations requirement? If not, why not?

Daidoji Sotsanu

Crane Clan Samurai * Liason to the Hare Clan

I have encountered also this problem. Please explain clearly.

I think people need clarification (myself included) on how this differs from the personality not being Daidoji (or any other family) for the purposes of other things, like attaching cards like Swamp Harriers or getting an HR reduction under the Iron Fortress of the Daidoji. Unless I am mistaken, I remember seeing official word saying that they do not count for those purposes.

But if it's in regards to the Keyword rule, doesn't Hayaku, being the Daidoji Family Founder, count as a Daidoji Personality in regards to all of those aspects? Someone I know was asking that about Hayaku and Swamp Harriers...

But if it's in regards to the Keyword rule, doesn't Hayaku, being the Daidoji Family Founder, count as a Daidoji Personality in regards to all of those aspects? Someone I know was asking that about Hayaku and Swamp Harriers...

Seemingly, which is why I was very confused when I saw that they didn't get the reduction. Again, I could completely be making this up, but I distinctly remember seeing either Marty or Jeff say this.

Martin Lund wrote:

It has to have been Jeff then, as James never listens to me.

Seriously though, Family Names violates the Keyword Rule, at least according to the Accumulated Rulings:

The Accumulated Rulings: Family names wrote:

Family names are determined by card title. [JA, 9 December 2002]

So, just so everyone's clear, Zen was incorrect (ha ha, Zen, trying to use logic and reason again, I see! Take that!)

Let's hear it for completely arbitrary rulings!

I yearn for the day that uniformity is applied to the rules.

Unorthodox Formation Formed by a Daidoji Personality and a Samurai. Battle: Bow one of your units to give an opposing Personality a Force penalty equal to your Personality's Chi or to send an opposing unit home.

Reduce this card's Gold cost and Honor Requirement by 1 if attaching to a Daidoji Family Personality. Battle: Bow Swamp Harriers to give up to two opposing Personalities -2F each.

Looks like Zen is correct. When a card looks for a Daidoji Personality, Doji Hayaku meets the criteria.

But when a card looks for a Daidoji Family Personality, Doji Hayaku, the Daidoji Family Founder, doesn't meet the criteria.

Unless there is official clarification, it appears that "X Family" is a reserved game term while specific family names are not.

In one really twisted way, this makes sense. In Diamond/Lotus play, the card Doji Hayaku is not the actual Daidoji Family Founder, but rather a modern day character who emulates him. Since the family name printed on the card is Doji, this character is a Doji Family member and it would be weird to have a modern day character who was a member of these two families. So, there's the story reason why the rule must stand as it is.

Oh, so it's a mistake caused by loose wording on cards. Nice.

Fortunately, no one in their right mind cares about Swamp Harriers not getting a GC reduction on Hayaku.

Oh, so it's a mistake caused by loose wording on cards. Nice.

Remember the good 'ol days of "Play it as it appears?" No MRP. I loved my Imperial copies Walking the Way with a 4 focus value.

(Sorry for the tangent.)

If you found(not the past tense of find) a family, wouldn't you really be considered to be a part of that family as it's founder?

It's like saying Hida Osano-Wo is a crab and not a mantis.

So, if he is a Daidoji card, does he count towards things like Swamp Harriers and Iron Fortress, and not for things like Family Tactics and Fukurokujin Seido?

So, if he is a Daidoji card, does he count towards things like Swamp Harriers and Iron Fortress, and not for things like Family Tactics and Fukurokujin Seido?

As was clarified previously, Swamp Harriers states "Daidoji Family personality" (which is only checked by it's card title) which is distinct from a "Daidoji personality", which Hayaku is by keyword.

One more completely unnecessary, confusing oddity of L5R's rules.

So no, you can't get the reduction on Swamp Harriers.

All your Daidoji Personalities have their Honor Requirement reduced by 5. Any personality you bring into play that is not a Samurai or Shugenja has it's gold cost raised by 3. Battle: Bow to have one of your Samurai issue a challenge to an opposing Personality. If this challenge is refused, this personality is sent home bowed and dishonored.

As it doesn't state "Daidoji Family Personalities", Hayaku would get the HR reduction. The oddity continues.

Both Family Tactics and Fukurokujin Seido refer to people who are of a certain family name, so Hayaku only counts as a Doji.

Zen Faulkes wrote:

Storyline factors are not a major consideration in making card rulings.

This is exactly why, especially in inconsequentially cases where it might not make the greatest amount of storyline sense like this, that uniformity is added. Try to ask someone if there is, or should be a different between a "personality who is a Daidoji" and a "Daidoji family personality". It is a completely unnecessary complication of the rules.

Ah, I get it now, which kind of sucks considering the bonuses the Daidoji have at them moment. You'd think being the Founder of a family would count for anything regarding that Family. Sort of like being the founder of a club, then watching your other members not allow you in.