A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
3 Questions:
Umasu Sensei:
Focusing in duels (when not using a follower) of force yields values higher than 0 because this increase in force is due to a rulebook effect, correct?
Items don't count as a force increase for this purpose do they?
If I am playing out of a SLH stronghold can I play political outcast by bowing one of their courtiers or gozoku, as they are performing the action (as Saori performs the initiating of her duels)?
Focusing in duels (when not using a follower) of force yields values higher than 0 because this increase in force is due to a rulebook effect, correct?
Yes, crab players can focus in force duels.
Items don't count as a force increase for this purpose do they?
No, attaching a Dai Tsuchi on a personnlity without a follower under Umasu Sensei would make the Dai Tsuchi a +0/+0 weapon.
If I am playing out of a SLH stronghold can I play political outcast by bowing one of their courtiers or gozoku, as they are performing the action (as Saori performs the initiating of her duels)?
No because you can't take Political actions under a Shadowlands Stronghold. So you wouldn't be able to even play the card in the first place. The restriction isn't about which players' personnality performs the action but which player does the action. In this case it's you. So you can't play it.
No, attaching a Dai Tsuchi on a personnlity without a follower under Umasu Sensei would make the Dai Tsuchi a +0/+0 weapon.
One correction. Dai-Tsuchi would still be a +3/+0 weapon... The personality just would not recieve a force bonus from it. This can be important in certain rare instances.
i agree. in a game localy we had a player become irate when his follower died on his sword bearer and the sword became useless.
i agree. in a game localy we had a player become irate when his follower died on his sword bearer and the sword became useless.
well tell that player to stop making bad decks that include the clan sword.
Yes, crab players can focus in force duels.
Each player announces his personalities current chi. Starting with the challenged personality, each personality must either focus or strike. To have your personality focus, place a card from your hand, called a focus card, face-down. This card immediately grants you personality a secret chi bonus equal to its focus value until the duel ends.
While Crab players CAN focus in duels, under Umasu sensei, their focusing will do nothing unless they have a follower attached.
Personalities you control may not receive Force bonuses from cards or Strongholds while they have no Followers attached. You may assign Personalities even if they are bowed. Battle: Bow a Follower you control: Once per Personality per battle, straighten its Personality if his Force is less than or equal to twice the Follower's.
First, focusing isn't a bonus from a card, it's a rulebook effect.
Second, the clan sword still has a use... It'll still boost chi.
First, focusing isn't a bonus from a card, it's a rulebook effect.
Second, the clan sword still has a use... It'll still boost chi.
Did you even read what I quoted from the Rulebook? It clearly states that the bonus is from the card itself, not the rulebook. I editted it above to aid you in reading it.
Similar thing is when Dishonored people cant gain focus bonuses in duels of PH.
For the love of God, could someone official please post on this?
Please?
Maybe you should write an article about this.
SHE BLINDED ME WITH
For the love of God, could someone official please post on this?
you should really know this...being the high and mighty Shadowlands Daimyo.
i thought that title came with some level of expertise...i guess i was wrong.
OH CRAP!! NO ONE ON THE RULES TEAM IS ANSWERING YOU, THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE! RUN FER IT!!!!
The Focus Bonus Comes From A Card
And Also Jesus.
Focusing in duels (when not using a follower) of force yields values higher than 0 because this increase in force is due to a rulebook effect, correct?
No. Rules Archive, General rules, Duels. Umasu Sensei doesn't say "card effects," it says "from cards," and the Rules Archive entry is broadly worded.
Items don't count as a force increase for this purpose do they?
For what purpose? Assuming the question is whether Umasu Sensei prevents bonuses from Items: Items are cards. No bonus from them.
If I am playing out of a SLH stronghold can I play political outcast by bowing one of their courtiers or gozoku, as they are performing the action (as Saori performs the initiating of her duels)?
Which stronghold? The texts are slightly different.
Okay, I just want to make sure that I fully understand Umasu Sensei now.
Let's say that, with Umasu Sensei, I have a 3 force peep with no followers. I give him a Hero's Banner. Later on, I give him a follower. Would he be 4 force or 3?
Also, let's say I put Hero's Banner on a 3 force peep who has a follower. Then, later on he loses his follower. Is he 4 force or 3?
Let's say that, with Umasu Sensei, I have a 3 force peep with no followers. I give him a Hero's Banner. Later on, I give him a follower. Would he be 4 force or 3?
Also, let's say I put Hero's Banner on a 3 force peep who has a follower. Then, later on he loses his follower. Is he 4 force or 3?
If the suppression ends or begins, recalculate if the force bonus is fram attached cards, because those are checked continuously.
Did you even read what I quoted from the Rulebook? It clearly states that the bonus is from the card itself, not the rulebook. I editted it above to aid you in reading it.
you posted while I was posting, I believe. Either that, or I posted before getting quite to the bottom. Either way, it's cleared up now.
Zen, is there a legal, current Shadowlands stronghold that will allow this? Pasted from l5rsearch.com:
T9K
You cannot gain or lose Honor. You cannot take Political actions or actions that cause unconditional Honor losses to other players. Your Personalities will not swear fealty. Bow to produce 4 Gold when paying for a Shadowlands card. Limited: If you control a Personality, bow the Temple to target another player's Personality. The target may challenge any of your Personalities to a duel. If he does not, dishonor him.
Spawning Ground
You cannot gain or lose Honor. You cannot take Political actions or actions that cause Honor losses for other players. Your Goblin, Ogre, Oni, and Troll Personalities each gain +1F/+1C. Your Personalities will not swear fealty. Your cards are immune to Fear.
Iuchibans Citadel
You cannot gain or lose Honor. You cannot take Political actions or actions that cause unconditional Honor losses to other players. Maho Reaction: Once per turn, after another player's Personality dies from having 0 Chi, give a Personality a +2F/+1C Blood token. This may be used while bowed.
I guess its really a question of whether taking an action is performing the action.
I dont think so vito. Its fairly black and white if you are shaddy you dont get to do anything political.
Hello.
Card Text
"You cannot take Political actions or actions that cause unconditional Honor losses to other players."
Accumulated Rulings
"Performing" and "taking" an action are synonymous. [VRD, 14 November 2000]
DE rulebook p71
Some actions are performed by cards in play as well as by a player.to determine who performs an action, follow the first rule below that applies:
3. Actions which involve one or more Personalities or Followers in their cost .....
So even if the action is performed by a courtier you are taking/performing it too. => you cant play it.
If wasnt that you are performing it too, Shadowlands could allways play political effects(any that needs a courtier or something), use the winds reactions(b/c you bow the stronghold), and we know that this doesnt work this way
Greetings.
Zen, is there a legal, current Shadowlands stronghold that will allow this?
I make rulings for all cards and strongholds, not just ones that are legal in current storyline simulation play.