Spirited Dispute

L5R CCG Rules board, 3 August 2014 to 6 August 2014

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 3 August 2014

As a Focus Effect, you may choose to lose this duel to negate its consequences for losing. Invest 2: Resolve this action a second time. Political Open: Rehonor your target Personality. Open, 2: Put a target attachment in your discard pile into your hand.

Please could you tell me: 1) Do you need to be winning the duel to "choose to lose" it? Or can you be losing, and still "choose to lose"? 2) The phrase "consequences of losing": does this include all consequences? eg: my opponent used Hojatsu Sensei on me and I lost the duel: is the bowing effect also negated, as well as the other consequences of losing the duel? 3) If an effect states that it happens if you win (eg: Kokujin, and you choose to take control of the other personality) then is this still an effect of losing, since it affects the loser in some way? 4) Can you choose to rehonor 1 personality, and take 1 attachment back to your hand? 5) If taking 2 attachments back to your hand, is the total cost 4 or 6? Many thanks. Sorry for all the questions, but most of these came up in game play, leading to... a spirited dispute...

Alex Jones (rules official), 6 August 2014

Please could you tell me: 1) Do you need to be winning the duel to "choose to lose" it? Or can you be losing, and still "choose to lose"? 2) The phrase "consequences of losing": does this include all consequences? eg: my opponent used Hojatsu Sensei on me and I lost the duel: is the bowing effect also negated, as well as the other consequences of losing the duel? 3) If an effect states that it happens if you win (eg: Kokujin, and you choose to take control of the other personality) then is this still an effect of losing, since it affects the loser in some way? 4) Can you choose to rehonor 1 personality, and take 1 attachment back to your hand? 5) If taking 2 attachments back to your hand, is the total cost 4 or 6? Many thanks. Sorry for all the questions, but most of these came up in game play, leading to... a spirited dispute...

1) Do you need to be winning the duel to "choose to lose" it? Or can you be losing, and still "choose to lose"? You may always make the choice; it need not have any effect.

2) The phrase "consequences of losing": does this include all consequences? eg: my opponent used Hojatsu Sensei on me and I lost the duel: is the bowing effect also negated, as well as the other consequences of losing the duel? Anything which is dependent on the outcome of the duel is a consequence of the duel.

Note that this does not include effects which are dependent on the consequences, so that an effect triggered by a Personality dying as a consequence of a duel is not itself a consequence of the duel.

3) If an effect states that it happens if you win (eg: Kokujin, and you choose to take control of the other personality) then is this still an effect of losing, since it affects the loser in some way? Consequences of winning which are applied to the loser are consequences of winning, not consequences of losing,

4) Can you choose to rehonor 1 personality, and take 1 attachment back to your hand? No. See here and here.

5) If taking 2 attachments back to your hand, is the total cost 4 or 6? 4, as described above.