A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 3 June 2014
Short story : i name Cavalry Escort with the Shadowed Estate open. My opponent declares an attack and in a battle (with presence) tries to use the battle from a cavalry escort in his hand.
Relevant texts : The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
Cavalry Escort Battle, : If this Follower is in your hand, Recruit your target Personality (paying all costs) for 5 more gold and attach this Follower (ignoring all costs) to him.
I have trouble deciding between the two following endings :
- Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, takes it back in his hand, and can do it again later this turn, successfuly this time. - Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, then discards it.
The following linked ruling is about the Ring of the Void, and seams to imply there is a clean up phase for cards that have no know destination : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106047&p=1397302&hilit=shadowed+estate#p1397302
Hence i think the second ending is the right one, but not understanding the quoted ruling i have trouble knowing if it applies. I didn't find relevant "clean up" phase in IvE comprehensive rules (i know it existed somewhat in EE in the old action resolution mode).
Thank you for your time .
A player, 3 June 2014
Adding to this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=108608
Since the gold cost is an actual cost and not an effect, it is not negated. But it is posible to declare the action and pay 0, even if that means that there isn't a legal target for the action?
Does the answer to the above change if The Shadowed State wasn't used on this card?
Thanks!
Alex Jones (rules official), 10 June 2014
Short story : i name Cavalry Escort with the Shadowed Estate open. My opponent declares an attack and in a battle (with presence) tries to use the battle from a cavalry escort in his hand.
Relevant texts : The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
Cavalry Escort Battle, : If this Follower is in your hand, Recruit your target Personality (paying all costs) for 5 more gold and attach this Follower (ignoring all costs) to him.
I have trouble deciding between the two following endings :
- Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, takes it back in his hand, and can do it again later this turn, successfuly this time. - Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, then discards it.
The following linked ruling is about the Ring of the Void, and seams to imply there is a clean up phase for cards that have no know destination : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106047&p=1397302&hilit=shadowed+estate#p1397302
Hence i think the second ending is the right one, but not understanding the quoted ruling i have trouble knowing if it applies. I didn't find relevant "clean up" phase in IvE comprehensive rules (i know it existed somewhat in EE in the old action resolution mode).
Thank you for your time .
If an action is taken from a card in hand (eg a Strategy, or an attachment with an ability that begins "If this XXX is in your hand"), it is discarded after the action ends unless it is now in play.
If Cavalry Escort has been named by The Shadowed Estate, the effect that puts it into play will fail, so the Cavalry Escort will be discarded when the action ends.
A player, 10 June 2014
In step E of the steps taken to play a card it states:
"Finally, if the player took the action from a Strategy card in hand, he or she discards it unless it is now in play."
(Emphasis mine) It doesn't say Fate card in hand but Strategy card. Cavalry Escort is not a Strategy card so as the rules are currently written it doesn't get discarded if the effect fails.
Jon Palmer (rules official), 20 July 2014
In step E of the steps taken to play a card it states:
"Finally, if the player took the action from a Strategy card in hand, he or she discards it unless it is now in play."
(Emphasis mine) It doesn't say Fate card in hand but Strategy card. Cavalry Escort is not a Strategy card so as the rules are currently written it doesn't get discarded if the effect fails.
The comprehensive rules have been updated to include the discarding of non-Strategy cards in this scenario.