A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 16 April 2014
The shadowed estate reads: Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
Bayushi Shizuka reads: Political Open: Target a Personality. After the next time (this turn) his controller assigns him, targets him, or resolves an action on a card in his unit, his controller loses Honor equal to his Personal Honor, then dishonor him.
And the rulebook reads: A delayed effect that has been activated but not yet applied is an ongoing effect, and can still be prevented by something that prevents effects in general, such as "effects of that action do not happen." However, something that prevents a specific type of effect, such as bowing, will only negate a delayed effect when it is actually applied.
So I have a set of questions.
1. If someone uses Bayushi Shizuka on one of my guys, can I after the fact name bayushi shizuka with the shadowed estate, then do something that would trigger her effects only to have Shizuka's effects negated?
2. If my opponent's bayushi shizuka targets my bayushi shizuka, assuming the previous question does result in a "the opposing shizuka's effects are negated" ruling, if I use my shizuka's action, which shizuka's effects are negated? In short, will the shadowed estate negate the shizuka's action resolving that creates the delayed effect, or does it negate the delayed effect triggered by resolving shizuka's action?
Thank you!
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 18 April 2014
The shadowed estate reads: Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
Bayushi Shizuka reads: Political Open: Target a Personality. After the next time (this turn) his controller assigns him, targets him, or resolves an action on a card in his unit, his controller loses Honor equal to his Personal Honor, then dishonor him.
And the rulebook reads: A delayed effect that has been activated but not yet applied is an ongoing effect, and can still be prevented by something that prevents effects in general, such as "effects of that action do not happen." However, something that prevents a specific type of effect, such as bowing, will only negate a delayed effect when it is actually applied.
So I have a set of questions.
1. If someone uses Bayushi Shizuka on one of my guys, can I after the fact name bayushi shizuka with the shadowed estate, then do something that would trigger her effects only to have Shizuka's effects negated?
2. If my opponent's bayushi shizuka targets my bayushi shizuka, assuming the previous question does result in a "the opposing shizuka's effects are negated" ruling, if I use my shizuka's action, which shizuka's effects are negated? In short, will the shadowed estate negate the shizuka's action resolving that creates the delayed effect, or does it negate the delayed effect triggered by resolving shizuka's action?
Thank you!
1. No.
Once you name a card with The Shadowed Estate, its negation will effect the "next action" to be taken from a card with that title. Just because some of the effects haven't occurred yet, an action taken from a Shizuka BEFORE she was named by The Shadowed Estate would not be the "next" action from a card with her title.
2. So, if your opponent uses his Shizuka, then you name Shizuka with the Stronghold ability, then AFTER THAT, you try to use your own Shizuka's action, YOURS would be the "next action" from a card with that title, and yours would be negated. So... don't do that.