A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 10 April 2014
Say I challenge a 3 chi personality with Doji Reju. My opponent focuses Kharmic Strike, and I proceed to strike.
According to the rules for resolving a duel in the comprehensive rules, focus effects resolve in step 4. So it is at that point that Kharmic Strike resolves, setting up the delayed effect of both personalities losing the duel when it resolves. However, in step 5, the scores are added up, and are tied, so Reju's trait triggers then, saying that he wins the duel. Which take precedence? I can see a few potential outcomes:
1.) Active player decides whether to apply Kharmic Strike's effect before Reju's, and so he will either win or lose the duel based upon that order. 2.) It doesn't matter the order they are applied, as they are not contradictory effects, the other personality will lose and Reju will both win AND lose the duel. 3.) Reju's trait doesn't matter as Kharmic Strike says the duel is not a tie (doubtful, as that is reminder text and seems to refer to the outcome NOT to the adding of scores which Reju is concerned with).
Thanks
Ben Higgins (rules official), 17 April 2014
Say I challenge a 3 chi personality with Doji Reju. My opponent focuses Kharmic Strike, and I proceed to strike.
According to the rules for resolving a duel in the comprehensive rules, focus effects resolve in step 4. So it is at that point that Kharmic Strike resolves, setting up the delayed effect of both personalities losing the duel when it resolves. However, in step 5, the scores are added up, and are tied, so Reju's trait triggers then, saying that he wins the duel. Which take precedence? I can see a few potential outcomes:
1.) Active player decides whether to apply Kharmic Strike's effect before Reju's, and so he will either win or lose the duel based upon that order. 2.) It doesn't matter the order they are applied, as they are not contradictory effects, the other personality will lose and Reju will both win AND lose the duel. 3.) Reju's trait doesn't matter as Kharmic Strike says the duel is not a tie (doubtful, as that is reminder text and seems to refer to the outcome NOT to the adding of scores which Reju is concerned with).
Thanks
Outcome 3 is the correct answer.
Focus Effects are applied before Duel Resolution, so when the duel goes to resolution, Kharmic Strike's effect has modified any result to a double loss, which is as the reminder text states, not a tie.
A player, 22 April 2014
Confused by this ruling.
Current Oracle Reju says
If scores are tied in a duel involving Reju, he wins the duel.
It is difficult based on the Rules Reference to determine if Reju's trait is triggered, or continuous. It looks Triggered to me.
So if it is a triggered trait, in the scenario described, even if Focus Effects come before resolution, the previous ruling does not address when Reju's trait triggers, which must be after all Focus Effects resolve, and a resolution score is tallied. Kharmic Strike doesn't change the resolution score of the duel nor does it stop the rule book duel procedure from creating that tally. It just creates an effect that says both personalities lose this duel, and it isn't a tie result. How does this preclude another effect like Reju's trait (which does not look for a tied result, the way the duelist trait does, but only a tied resolution score) from countermanding that effect. Much like the interaction of Sneak Attack and Bayushi Toson (XP2) Reaction on Defense overriding each other. Thus Reju's trait still applies thus creating a conflicting effect, No? If not, why not? Yes I understand a tied Resolution Score "normally" results in a tied Duel result, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Indeed they must be different, otherwise cards like Two Men at a River don't make any sense. If they aren't different why isn't Reju's Oracle Text simply "Duelist"?
Does a tied Resolution Score between Reju and a Duelist result in a win for both personalities(It used to be true, is it still?)? If so then tied resolution score != tied Duel result, thus the wording on Kharmic (not a tie result) != the same thing as Reju's text (Tied Resolution Score).
But even if Reju's trait IS a continuous trait, then by the Substitution of conflicting effects would it not override Kharmic? Again if not , why not? It certainly looks like BOTH of these effects are substitution?
Alex Jones (rules official), 29 April 2014
Confused by this ruling.
Current Oracle Reju says
It is difficult based on the Rules Reference to determine if Reju's trait is triggered, or continuous. It looks Triggered to me.
So if it is a triggered trait, in the scenario described, even if Focus Effects come before resolution, the previous ruling does not address when Reju's trait triggers, which must be after all Focus Effects resolve, and a resolution score is tallied. Kharmic Strike doesn't change the resolution score of the duel nor does it stop the rule book duel procedure from creating that tally. It just creates an effect that says both personalities lose this duel, and it isn't a tie result. How does this preclude another effect like Reju's trait (which does not look for a tied result, the way the duelist trait does, but only a tied resolution score) from countermanding that effect. Much like the interaction of Sneak Attack and Bayushi Toson (XP2) Reaction on Defense overriding each other. Thus Reju's trait still applies thus creating a conflicting effect, No? If not, why not? Yes I understand a tied Resolution Score "normally" results in a tied Duel result, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Indeed they must be different, otherwise cards like Two Men at a River don't make any sense. If they aren't different why isn't Reju's Oracle Text simply "Duelist"?
Does a tied Resolution Score between Reju and a Duelist result in a win for both personalities(It used to be true, is it still?)? If so then tied resolution score != tied Duel result, thus the wording on Kharmic (not a tie result) != the same thing as Reju's text (Tied Resolution Score).
But even if Reju's trait IS a continuous trait, then by the Substitution of conflicting effects would it not override Kharmic? Again if not , why not? It certainly looks like BOTH of these effects are substitution?
Under discussion.