Stat Setting and Minimum/Maximum Values

L5R CCG Rules board, 7 January 2014 to 8 January 2014

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 7 January 2014

Following Ivory Advanced Rulebook we read "set", as

Set: When a stat is set to a particular value, give it a bonus or penalty such that it reaches the new value.

and rule about stat limits, as

If you need to know a stat’s value at any time, apply all current bonuses and penalties first, then apply any minimum or maximum value.

I need to clarify one thing. Does "Set" definition operate on "virtual" values of stats? I mean that line about "If you need to know a stat value at any time" does not refer to "setting" mechanics, or does it?

Let's give some examples of tricky situations. I have Daidoji Ujirou and Personality with 0F (fore an example Daidoji Soken) attacking province with Bayushi Kachiko defending. After assignment my personalities have virtual force of -1 and 2, after applying rulebook minimum of 0 they have 0F and 2F. As engage action I use Ujirou's ability targeting Kaichiko and Soken (assuming that Ujirou's "raise" means "set, if it would give bonus" or something like this, but it's kind of clear anyway). Ujirou does not gain any bonus, but what with Soken? Both +1F and +0F (also reading as no force bonus) would make him "reach the new value" - Kaichiko's 0F. +1F would mean that "limits rule" does not work on "setting tech", +0F just the opposite.

Similar this is with reducing to 0 force (with for example Daidoji Tametaka exp) of Hida Kuon exp 5 or Personality with such trait/effect. If "limits rule" works while "setting" such action would be unresolvable, if it does not it would give Kuon -12F (leaving him with current force of 2).

The second example makes me believe that "limits rule" does not work while "setting", but sole rulebook text suggest the opposite, so I would like to have some clarification.

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Personalities and Followers have -1F while they are Fallen, Nonhuman, or attacking you.

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Engage: Raise Ujirou's Force, and the Force of a target Personality in his army, to equal the Force of a target enemy card.

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Crab Clan Personalities at Kuon's location have a minimum Force and Chi of 2.

A player, 8 January 2014

Well, the Advanced Rulebook doesn't really enter in details. Let's see what do the CR have to say: Setting stats to a value To set a stat to a value, give it the smallest possible appropriate bonus or penalty (or the smallest possible gain or loss, for Honor) such that it would reach that value, not counting any maximum or minimum in effect for that stat. (Emphasis mine)

And there's also an example:

A 2F Personality receives a -3F penalty. Although the Personality's force is rounded to 0F, the -3F penalty is still in effect. If instructed to set the Personality's force to 5, the Personality receives a 6F bonus. If the 6F bonus has a longer duration than the -3F penalty, the Personality's force will become 8F after the penalty expires.

So you will receive the +1F, not considering the minimum of 0 until after the bonus' value has been determined.