otomo suikihime + t.b.o.p + jade embrace + emp address

L5R CCG Rules board, 23 January 2013 to 24 January 2013

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 23 January 2013

Relevant text

Otomo suikime Reaction: Once per game, after Suikihime enters play, if no other player controls The Forgotten Temple: Suikihime grants you new lands in the Colonies. Gain a province to the left of your leftmost province. After the next time this game Suikihime leaves play, destroy your leftmost province.

Blood of the Preserver Battle: Remove this card from the game: Each player chooses zero to two Personalities at the current battlefield. Remove them from the game; cards and tokens stay attached to them. After the next turn begins, each unit enters play in its owner's home, ignoring costs, restrictions, and entering-play effects; then, give them each three +1F Blood tokens.

Jade Embrace/Ninube Onchi Battle: Bow this card and target an enemy Personality: Remove one of his abilities. If this Shugenja is Earth, reduce the target's Force to 0. If the target is an Oni, destroy it and this card. "this of course could be any card that removes abilitys"

The Empress' address Reaction: After the resolution of an action or battle that destroyed any of your Personalities in a defending army, bow your performing Courtier or Empress and target your non-Unique Personality with your Clan alignment in your discard pile: Bring him into play (in your home), ignoring costs. Gain 2 Honor.

Alright seems like alot but this actually came up. which promptly caused us to equally agree there is a issue.

So If you remove her ability and she goes face down/removed losing all memory when she returns to play could she use it again? not from the item I understand but the empress address after I lets say sacrifice the pawns her.

So my questions, Would this make 1 additional province or 2? Also removing her memory would this make me lose the province? another If she loses her ability then dies would you lose it?

Thanks.

A player, 24 January 2013

Alright seems like alot but this actually came up. which promptly caused us to equally agree there is a issue.

So If you remove her ability and she goes face down/removed losing all memory when she returns to play could she use it again? not from the item I understand but the empress address after I lets say sacrifice the pawns her.

That's not correct. Neither destroying Suikihime nor removing her from the game with Blood of the Preserver (assuming you somehow could) would put her face down nor be enough to make Suikihime lost memory of having used her ability. The Tracking Rule requires the card to be both out of play and face-down, but the discard pile and the outside the game area are both face-up areas. Suikihime still remembers. Oh, dear, she does!

Also, removing the ability doesn't make a difference here.

So my questions, Would this make 1 additional province or 2?

Just one. And attempting the combo would make you lose it.

Also removing her memory would this make me lose the province?

No, that's not "leaving play" per ability's text.

another If she loses her ability then dies would you lose it?

Yes. The ability was activated when you used the Reaction, and it's still active. The delayed effect is waiting for a trigger to be applied, but it's now independent from its source existing or not. Removing the ability wouldn't stop the consequences of having used it previously that game.