Sun and Moon #rules-questions

Yeah I knew about the cost reduction being unavailable I just guess I missed the part about the honor gain

[Obh] what happens If I use The Shogun's Right Hand with two copys of the target personality in play? Its too late and nothing happens to the copys in play and only prevents to new copys to enter play?

Singular is only checked when a card is entering play or is being gained control

[OBH] I need to confirm a favor action is basically any action that you discard the favor as a cost?

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=3654

Or that is considered an use of the imperial favor

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=3962

[Obh] daidoji Yuki exp gets the first action defending against naval/sneak?

I believe the order of reactions would matter there.

Sneak and naval are engage actions that delay the effects to get the first action until engage phase ends. Then you react with Yuki. I think that both effects are happens at the same time and the active player decides the order

that's normally the case, but as long as an action has the 'x' keyword it's an 'x' action

Yuki’s reaction is after engaging so naval/sneak has already resolved. So his reaction overrides naval/sneak 1st opportunity.

from OBH primer document

Ok, the text needs an update in Oracle as is the same as the card. Then, both effects happens at the same time and the active players decides, right?

unfortunately, i don't see that happening - this is an OBH-specific ruling. don't forget, the Oracle is also used for other formats like EE strict/extended (where Yuki is from and engage doesn't exist yet)

as for the effects, the last action taken would be the one that the game will see true. there's no timing conflicts to be resolved for the need of an active player to make a choice.

Thanks. I figured as much, but the question was asked, and I couldn't say definitely, despite intuitively understanding that's what it meant.

Ok thanks!

This isn't showing me anything

So if you discard the favor as a cost it is a favor action. For example accidental confession. Or bond of coin. Or word of the wolf?

Question: In modern format, can different cards in the same unit perform combined melee or ranged attacks? How about non-follower attachments (items, spells) that bestow range or melee ability be used to combine melee or ranged attack ability as an interrupt?

As I see in Oracle, yes

Modern uses 20F rules set, so you can combine Ranged and Melee attacks from different cards in the same unit

copy. i didnt realize that was updated on there. thanks

[Jade] for The Sacred Temple of the Phoenix, if you give the shadowlands trait to a shugenja, you don’t gain honor for bringing the in. But their personal honor is still the printed value, right? Like you can’t use test of honor to hit them with a zero PH fate card reveal, right?

correct

Ok thanks!

Yes

Damn… thanks

@Brook Cunningham and this one?

Fair 😉 Thank you ❤️

I believe when you play DPoS, all face-down Personalities in Provinces are unknown for you as you don;t have access to Shiro no Soshi trait that allows to look for face down cards in provinces before you Recruit them.

After re-reading the comprehensive rules that makes sense, I Just kinda wanted to do some ninjutsu stuff but is seems Ninjutsu only can be used off Shiro no Soshi since I don't know another way to know what the stuff in my provences will be wile face down

I haven't found any post about GOW in forum archive.

Yes.

@Brook Cunningham

Celestial Road has a very rare cost of discarding Personality from play, not destroying it.

PS. Also in result it may create really rare situation when you have dishonored discarded (not dead) card in discard pile.

Ok.thanks!

Its more a question about "no second battle" rule.

"no second battle rule" is about only movement. So, as attacker, you may bring into play at other batlefield a dead personality that was destroyed in battle resolution in any other previous battles same battle phase.

[CW] Do the Lieutenant X Followers from SCC count against the Uniqueness of their "grown up" Personalities? The Followers don't say they count as such, while other similar(-ish) cards do (e.g: some Ancestors, The Great Bear, et al.). I'm leaning toward "No, that was by design."

[Obh] Dazai exp and Hidden Catacombs. Dazai bows if you use the trait of the SH, for example to pay the cost of discard the imperial favor on a Wind action

You can bow Dazai to pay the cost for Catacombs but his trait woud not activate since Catacombs is not a Politcal action and is not a spell.

[SHE] Question with Iweko Miaka wind and crane stronghold. If the favor is used from iweko, and the stronghold takes back the favor. Is the player able to send home as well with normal favor?

and how does the lobby works for her? is it honor + bonus from personality? or its only the personalities?

yes on the first one: Using this wind allows both the Favor action printed on it as well as rulebook Favor actions. As for how its lobbying works, it's standard lobby of Honor. The Lobby Bonus of twice Unbowed Personalities is applied to both that AS WELL as compared to other Wind lobbies (if your Suikihime Wind opponent Wind lobbies,, for example, you still have the advantage of that Lobby Bonus when counting cards in your hand)

Thanks again, you are a veritable treasure ❤️

I think that Oracle wording is clear: "Reaction: Before a card enters the discard pile from this Province, put in at the bottom of your Dynasty deck instead."

So yes and yes

Or not, as EE CR says that Events enter specifc "resolution area" then are discarded. So i don;t know it counts as being discarded from Province or not ;/

Thanks, just an additionnal short question, should not it be a repeatable reaction since the card comes from Gold Edition?

Dear MacBeth2001, so nice to talk again with you!

Please don't misunderstand me, it is not a complain Thanks a lot for allllll your great help to solve our sick rule questions for many years!!

Engage occurs before combat segment.

Sneak attack is no longer a reaction, but an engage action. So FoyK can no longer cancel it.

if you are afraid of Sneaks and Gathering - use Entrenched Position.

Thanks!

Thanks.... wow so bad news, I need to update even more now

Hunh. Wonder if that was intentional.

Sneak Attack no longer being FoYK-able™ due to adding the "Engage" timing segment.

thous are the cards I am refering to

SorryI mean the action

It specifically says target cards in discard piles to remove from play(/Banish). So that part definitely works. My main question because of the no targeting in discard piles: if the cancel action works as it technically targets a card that targets a card in the discard pile, but refers to a keyword on the card in the discard pile.

Usually actions is that target stuff out of play or other than personalities will specify

The only thing that VtD does is remove a keyword and banish cards from discards

Talking about the action

So the only interaction with the discard is banish cards

So Victory through Deference's Open/Battle action targets 3 cards in discard piles. If one of the cards targeted is an Oni, can Undetectable Enemy cancel it or is it prevented from doing so, because the Oni is in the discard pile?

So far there are 3 cancel actions that are good that can cancel actions outside of battle. 2 are conditional and the other one is not OBH legal.

What are the conditional ones?

Cursed resolve and Bad kharma. The not legal one is Fallen in battle

Thanks a lot.

By the way, please let me know if I can help for double-checking things in the Oracle by any means. We may talk about that by private message if you want.

Now it is high time to finish my OBH tournament decklist and stop asking new questions

Thanks for reminding me! I have to do the same thing! And I don't have much of the weekend to do it in.

Don't remember reading that on the rules

got it

was reading too fast and past it LOL

When you make a deck designed to defend...

You have two more options.

Also, they're all 4 FV...so you kinda know what kind of deck I made...

In OBH you should follow Oracle wording that allows to use LS for any action, including Recruit or Equip BUT in our online OBH events we follow additional errata: (link)

There's some in inconsistency in Oracle as LS and Aramasu's Vigilance have similiar printed abilities, but work in different way. So in our online OBH i issued LS errata. But eg Phillipin guys play with original LS wording so card is popular there.

Buying Personalities and Holdings is Recruiting and buying attachments is Equipping.

Ok, thx. That clarifies it for me then. 👍

Thanks a lot, the truth is that I was nos looking for ideas to break Sneak Attack. Anyway, I'll have a look at those cards, thanks!

-> I was only thinking about the usefullness of Fall on your knees since now you have Engage and Interrupt which didn't exist in Diamonds.

Of you are running tacticians. Sun returns is a good anti sneak and battle action card

(Like using the SH plus another holding for the last gold I mean, like that and a small farm)

Correct, she would negate the gold production as well:

Will negate the gold as well as the Shadowlands trait if the Sacred Temples of the Phoenix stronghold is bowed to produce 7G to pay for her or for a spell for her. [Card text, DW, 12/11/96]

[OBH] Is Wind considered as a card "in play"?

I see

[OBH] FOLLOW UP Hello...my memory might be rusty...I thought strongholds were not considered "cards?" And since I'm here might as well ask...

Are winds and sensei considered "cards?"

Thank you. Sorry for asking the same question twice.

this is relevant to current match going on right now. please help

@Brook Cunningham @kempy_nezumi a player

thank you

Is OBH a gold pooling format?

i was under the impression it isnt

ignore my question thank you

From the 20F advanced rulebook: page 41.

There is no longer a specific mention that the ranged attack must be in battle (although 99% of RA are specifically for battle, this one is a reaction.)

2ND QUESTION... Melee is explicitly mentioned that it can combine with other melee...but there is no such mentioned for Ranged Attacks.

I couldn't find "ranged attack" in OBH rules list. If I have Random personality WITH ranged attack: 4 and an Ashigaru Archers attached with Ranged Attack 2: can they work together to perform ranged attack 6?

This is the closest I came...but I can't find the specific rule that Ranged Attacks must be in battle. Like I said: it almost never comes up because 99% of ranged attacks specifically come from 😜 I mean battle actions.

Definition of "enemy" means it must be on the battlefield.

"enemy" in definition of Ranged/Melee attack.

Also OBH follows 20f Ranged/Melee rules, so you may combine them from cards in same Unit.

Hayan's trait doesnt allow to break No Second Battle rule if you asking about this. No Second Battle rulebook restriction forbids a Unit that was on Battle Resolution this phase to assign or move in to other Battle as attacker.

Btw please mark your posts with specific tag. There are some various Legacy formats, so we need to be more specific like [OBH]. Cheers!

Shoju as attacker, when my hand comes back with RC, I still can play it, right?

Awesome!