[legacy(?)] can gates of the second city pay for its own honor making ability?
[attachment: image0.jpg]
Sun and Moon #rules-questions
Messages from the Sun and Moon #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
Yes
amazing ty
Though it is a draft SH, so I don’t know what format it’s legal for
i'm making a draft cube
But the SH is banned in OBH,
i think it is banned in everything hence the "(?)"
oh also there is the draft mode in SnM ofc and it can be used there
[ShE] When this even triggers it also destroys your own non-shadowlands personalities and followers if they cost 4 gold or less, right?
[attachment: Captura.JPG]
It doesn't trigger, it's an action you choose to take. But yes, when its effects resolve, it destroys all players' such cards.
You're right, it doesn't trigger, my bad... thank you!!
[LE] i have two guys with followers. i bow one follower to pay a cost of formation ability. battle ability is "interrupted" by benjiro at "target" trigger. duel resolves and one of my guys die.
[attachment: printing_2334_1_details.png]
does effect from destruction of formation ability still resolve and op guy dies?
[attachment: printing_3078_1_details.png]
@Brook Cunningham ?
I think its resolves as you paid the costs and Benjiro dont cancel actions
Yeah, if you already legally announced the action, the fact you stop meeting the "Formed by" requirements at that point should no longer be relevant to the remainder of the action resolving. I don't have the LE book handy, and I'll double check when I do, but I'm pretty sure.
Formation Formations are a special type of Action card that represent the capabilities of an organized army. • When played, a Formation enters play at the current battlefield (see page 64), and remains in play and controlled by its player until it is removed. • After a Formation enters play but before it resolves, destroy all other Formations controlled by the same player. • Each Formation has a requirement listed after the phrase, “Formed by”. You cannot play a Formation unless your army at the current battle- field meets this requirement. Also, unless a Formation is in play and its “Formed by” requirement is met, it produces no effects and its abilities cannot be used. Each condition mentioned must be met by a separate thing. For example, “Formed by a Samurai and a Courtier” requires two cards to meet, and is not satisfied by one Personality who is both a Samurai and a Courtier. • Actions provided by Formations may be used any number of times per turn. • Formations are played using the following action that all players may take and that is not actually on the Formation card itself:
the formation is not the issue
Battle: Any number of times per turn: Play a Formation from your hand. You may then take an additional legal Battle or Open action. AFormation is not destroyed if its “Formed by” requirement stops being met. It simply stops being useful. It will become useful again if its conditions are met once more. A “Formed by” requirement does not need to be met by the exact same set of cards throughout a battle.
Targeting is the question
Targeting is a part of ability, after costs are paid
none of effect require my cards anymore
Thank you
Yeah, "requirements" are generally just checked at announcement, not throughout the action and then halting it if they're suddenly no longer met, and the "Formed by" are explicitly requirements per Efirm's quote of the Rules.
I think that the question is Benjiro destroy the unit with the follower used by the formation. As the follower is not present at the battle can not be opposing the target card
And not aboutbthe formation requierement
Ah. Well, Benjiro destroys after the targeting already happened, so the targeting requirements were also all met at the appropriate time, and as I said about "Formed by", no longer meeting it after the fact doesn't stop or undo anything.
[LE] and to be sure, Benjiro mentioned above may target any guy anywhere (like a guy in home while he is in battle).
all good Benjiro works different when a duel is happening all good
Yep. Reactions aren't beholden to Presence or Relevance.
A misunderstanding I though it would work the same way but no
The big thing is that targeting happens after cost are paid I though Targeting happened before cost where paid
Oh, yeah that's a point. I wasn't thinking about that in relation to the Follower being unable to pay because Benjiro killed it first; the question didn't make that point clear. I'd have to look at the Rules for that sequence contemporarily.
[OBH] Hired Killers if you change the target to a higher cost personality since costs have been paid. Does Killers fails?
I thought you couldn't target one where it'll fail because it's done in bad faith between targetting vs costs.
The opponet is targeting right I'm the one chnging the target
Most redirection does specify the new target does have to also be legal.
there are certain redirect that do not
Or perhaps that was baked into Redirection Rules at the time. Again, just on my phone, so references will have to be checked later.
Please edit to to Open, Lotus, Samurai or OBH Legacy as this one is tricky and it really depends on how redirection card was written and what ruleset is used. It worked different way in Lotus and then eg in 20F (that is used in OBH Legacy or Modern).
eg in early Samurai it was ruled this way:
[attachment: image.png]
It doesn't say anything that it has to be a unit that you could pay to destroy so if target changes to one that you can't the action fails?
In early Samurai such scenarios should work this way. Need to find how it works in 20F/OBH.
[attachment: image.png]
There's no problem with not paying but does the action fails and it has to be discarded or not.
If costs arent paid, ability fails and if its from strategy card, it's dicarded.
I havent found such stuff in 20F CR, but because it's OBH question i checked one step earlier, in EE CR.
"Interference with mandatory costs From the point when the action is announced legally to the point where the individual cost is required, if payment of any of an action’s mandatory costs is interfered with, the player taking the action may choose to pay the costs another way, or choose not to pay the cost.
If he or she cannot pay the costs another way, or chooses not to, then any remaining costs do not need to be paid, but costs already paid are not refunded, and the action’s effects do not happen. The action is still considered taken and ended, but not resolved, and the ability that created it is considered used. If the action was on a card still in a resolution area (see Announce the action, this page), the card will be discarded normally when the action ends (see Action ends, this page). This includes Strategies that did not enter play, other cards with actions that could be played from a face-down and out-of-play area, and cards searched for in the deck that did not enter play. [ADDED Mar 20 2013]"
The reason it's not in 20F is because there's no 20F/Ivory way to interfere with costs. Interrupts happen post payment.
if im playing emperor ed strongholds is there a rule for going second ?
If youre playing second you get bamboo harvesters aside from border keep iirc
Going second gives you a Bamboo Harvesters in EE. Make sure to include one in your deck during construction
Please add edition/format tag for your question (like [EE] or [OBH]) because this question have different answers for some formats (like in Modern or AEG Legacy you dont get Bamboo Harvesters while going second with Emperor era Strongholds.
Will do 🙂
[ShE] Tairao and similar abilities: If a personality can not gain shadowlands do they still gain -2F/-1C (or whatever else is to be given along with the shadowlands trait) or is it treated as a single effect that is then negated?
[attachment: printing_11228_1_select.png]
Answers on: Tairao
Separate effects; they still get the penalties.
General rules question, do cavalry assign after infrantry or are they assigned at the same time ?
depends on the edition...
Most editions had a seperate Cavalry assign phase, later ones don't but have a once per turn cavalry engage rulebook ability that allows 1 cavalry unit to move to a battlefield
In any case cavalry can always choose to assign alongside infantry
Specifically, the way Cavalry works was a drastic change (1 of many) in the last Edition(s), Ivory/20F.
(link) in case of "generał" questions use [Open] or [Legacy]. In L5R rarely there exists just "generał" question.
So if we are using the 20F rules they assign at the same time but get the ability to jump into a battle ?
only 1 unit per turn gets to jump
Note that the one jumping may have already been assigned
Bit weird that it doesn't list the cavalry rulebook ability as absent REMOTE engage... or is remote an Onyx/Shattered Empire addition?
Remote and/or Home are only needed on abilities on cards in play.
I see
Also, Remote predates Onyx, but only on cards in the Oracle and in Legacy Rules. It was not used on any physically printed cards.
When Bryan Reese made up the "Home" designator and instituted it in Late Emperor/Ivory, I explained that it was a slightly more narrow exception than previous Rules exceptions to Location, and so I made up "Remote" as a broader exception to Oracle onto cards that could also use their abilities while at other battlefields and not just while at "Home". I got his permission to use it in the Oracle, though he stuck with "Home" for the then-current environment in the interest of "simplifying"/narrowing options.
ShE Can i use a response to an interupt? Trying to use what have you done to the interupt for isawa kosea, master of earth
Answers on: Isawa Kosea, Master of Earth
No. Interrupts and Responses cannot be Interrupted or Responded to.
Follow up question... is there an interupt window or response window if so which is first? For example person plays overaweing spirit to bow me with a fear that targeted the paragon, then decides to play okura released. Do I have to play what have you done before he plays okura released or can I wait for the effect from okura released to fully go off before I play what have you done? Assuming I can wait till action fully resolved?
Sorry I'm just not uses to responses vs interrupts and want to understabd
I'm not going to look all those up and hope this answers your question comprehensively: The sequence for a non-Interrupt/non-Response action is this:
Announce > pay costs > choose targets > both players play any relevant Interrupts > resolve the action > both players play any relevant Responses.
Perfect thank you
Answers on: Fight For My Favor
Last question whole new topic....
ShE fight for my favor i play it. When do i choose to destroy vs bow? When the card is played? After focusing and determined winner? Been playing it as when played.
After determining the winner/loser. You choose the optional consequences as they'e applied, which is not until the loser is determined.
Oh wow thats even better than i thought!
Who is always the first player to play an interrupt or a response in this sequence ? My opponent or myself?
The active player, aka whoever's turn it is.
If I have two different bayushi aramoro that are unique and exp2 can they both be in the deck ?
Answers on: Bayushi Aramoro
Yes, because one is a misprint and is actually the Exp 3.
You'll observe, in the Oracle, one of them has the correct number and an errata note.
Awesome thank you
(link)
question for Lotus. Can Hachigoro activate his reaction against naval defense to get first action?
[attachment: image.png] [attachment: printing_208_1_details.png]
Answers on: Hachigoro
@Brook Cunningham ?
Looks like no, he cannot.
Unlike much later Rules, I do believe engaging in Lotus was synonymous with the start of the Battle Action Segment (there was no separate "Engage" action segment).
In spanish
https://forolavozakasha.mforos.com/190822/5547514-akodo-natsu-y-akodo-hachigoro-vs-naval/
[akodo natsu y akodo hachigoro vs naval]
You can not play Hachigoro against naval
In the linkbtalk about KD rulesheet and engange
(link)
[ShE] If I use the ability of a spell, then that spell gets destroyed and then I re-attached it to the same or a different personality, can I use its ability a second time? Assuming everything happens in the same battlefield. And what about if I re-attach the spell in a different battlefield, but during the same battle pahse?
Unless the Spell also went face-down while it was out of play, just leaving play and returning will not cause it to "forget" that the OPT limit on its ability has been used.
So, no, you cannot use it again in either scenario as described.
Got it, thanks
Hello guys question for Lotus with Crossroads of destiny. If I control an uniligned personality already. Can I reduce the cost of a second uniligned personality with this card? or it only works if I have a personality with clan aligement?
[attachment: printing_1580_1_details.png]
Answers on: Crossroads, Crossroads of Destiny
that should work
Yes, that works. "Unaligned" is not a "Faction trait" (which is basically another term for Chan Alignment), so the two example Personalities would have none in common.
Ivory Question : does malus like the "Flashy technique" (open : -1F to attacking personnalities) are just for the turn or stay in plays ? Thanks !
It's Open ability that effects are viable until end of current turn. You announce Open ability from Flashy Technique, action resolves, and card is discarded but its effect is active until end of current turn.
Here's example of Ivory/Twenty Festivals legal card that stays on table and its passive effect/trait is active until card is discarded from play.
[attachment: printing_11854_1_details.png]
[Imperial]
More of a timing question-- scenario was active player puts into play a Black Market, losing 3 honor. Active player has a Goshiu exp that can use ability to redirect the honor loss to opponent, and opponent has the favor.
Both can react to the honor loss and I believe the active player gets to react first, what happens to the honor loss?
So you bring the BM into play, and say you'll lose 3FH. You have first option to respond to it, so you say you'll use Goshiu Exp. to redirect it. You bow him as the cost, and redirect it. The next player can react to that, so they can ditch the Favour to cancel the Honour Loss.
Ok so the opponent can't react to the 3FH loss from the BM anymore right, since it's 'gone'? They can only use the favor to cancel the honor loss from Goshiu
{ShE} I used Sorrows debt to steal a personality. There is no opposed personalities at the battlefield
Can I use Overwhelmed to still kill the highest force guy (the guy I stole with sorrows debt) even though he is unopposed?
The targeting of overwhelmed is targeting my own personality so I think this works?
Tournament game so would love some insight if possible :/
Played as it didnt work
Seems to me like it would have worked as Overwhelmed doesn't require you to be opposed. It requires your personality to sacrifice and then has some effects that may or may not happen.
(Lotus) Namig True Evil + Shourido. If I play a Dark Virtue counts as play shadowlands cards? https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=5507,#cnprintingid=1 https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=7189
Answers on: Shourido
No. The Dark Virtues do not have the Shadowlands keyword.
is correct. It would work.
Ok, I am hating overwhelmed more and more...
But the follower create by shoruido can be attached or The event prevents to create and attach it?
The event prevents it. Token Followers are also cards. Creating a card counts as bringing it into play. The definition of "play" (as evidenced by its broad use on Naming the True Evil) encompases "bringing into play".
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you for all the information gathered here. I'm an old player (from Imperial to Jade) and have recently started playing again, but I'm still struggling with the flaws that made me stop playing in the first place. In particular, I find my games too long (easily 1.5 hours). Even though this is probably because I have a lot to relearn, I was wondering if there are any rules for faster games? Thank you for your feedback.
Thanks!
If you want to play only one format its a matter of time and games played.
I'm more in Ivory to see how the game has evolved... and been simplified.
Hi. Welcome, but could we more this conversation to (link) channel?
[Imperial]
Is the Tactician ability once per turn, or can be used per battle?
[attachment: 617969443_1221508176776507_7093000325911487082_n.png]
Once per turn per tactician personality you have
No. It was different in early editions.
In Imperial it was once per battle. It was true until they changed it in Lotus.
So if I switch to a different battlefield, I can do it again for the same personality?
Does the bonus accumulate?
the bonus stays untill the end of the turn
and in the way the rule was written yes you could use the same guy in another battle.
Yes. It seems it's ok.
Our group can't fathom this information haha. Hope we can have @Brook Cunningham confirm this
In the welcome channel there is an address where all the rule books are downloaded you could take a look at.
Yeah the photo is on my original question, we have physical rule books here. Just wanted to clarify if it is once per battle (when moving to another battlefield, it's a different battle) or once per battle [segment/phase]
The way it was written in Imperial you could have the same tactician use the tactical action in another battle
I don't think you could use personalities that have been in battle resolution unless you are moving the guy before resolution.
That was ok in old editions as well.
There were decks that allowed to break all provinces with one guy same turn.
Shoju, Shidachi, and a couple of Rallying Cry's can break more than 1 province same turn
I guess as long as you have movement
Yes, this is all correct. Back in Clan War, Tactician was OPB, and there was no "no second battle" Rule, largely because move-in-from-home was extremely rare. Forced March and Shidachi are all that immediately come to mind. Also, Shidachi telegraphs the play immensely and without a Sneak gives the Defender a chance to answer first unless you sent multiple Scorpions to swap out for Shoju.
Thank you all for your responses
[ShE] Yasuki Yushiro. I am going second as a crane player, my stronghold has repeatable favor actions. If I am somehow able to get the favor say 5x in the same turn, can I keep targeting the same personlity with Yasuki Yushiro over and over, and get 10 honor as long as I have enough ways to re-get the favor?
oh gosh... that's something I never considered, but absolutely should!
(wait until they both read [carry forth], too!)
[EEex/OBH] I use BK ability to reveal all cards in provinces, and then both Akodo's Guidance and Akodo's Guidance - experienced appear. Because of weird interaction between BK/Celestials and Uniqueness rule what would happen: 1) only one Celestial of my choice will enter play 2) both enter play 3) none may enter play
[Imperial]
Can Tsanuri exp 2nd ability still be used if Kachiko's Kiss is active?
[attachment: printing_3654_3_details.png] [attachment: printing_4083_2_details.png]
Answers on: Kachiko's Kiss
Yes. KK just removes the Favor itself and prevents playing DLF. Nothing about the final clause of Tsanuri's ability requires the Favor to be in the game, it just allows it to be interacted with like a Favor action, such as negated by Confusion at Court.
All clear. Thank you
[OBH] a player
How works Benjiro vs Endless Horde (or other card that targets in costs and effects) under OBH. May Benjiro's trait stops whole action by killing a single unbowed card required to bow for Endless Horde cost.
OBH uses
Action Sequence:
Announce > Target > Interrupt > Pay Cost > Resolve Effects > Clean-up
But is it working as in EE or 20F? So "> target >" means something like "C. Required targeting" that looks for targets in constraints block only" or is like targeting everything including effects.
[attachment: printing_2334_1_details.png] [attachment: printing_3078_1_details.png]
Oracle wording for EH is:
"While you meet the conditions to put this card into play, you have the ability, "Battle: Any number of times per turn, bow your performing Follower and target an enemy Follower, Item, or Personality without Followers or Items: Destroy it." Battle: If you control a Personality with a Follower and a Samurai or Bushi Personality with a Follower, both at the current battlefield: Put this card into play there. Discard your other Formations. You may take an additional Battle action."
[Lotus] @Brook Cunningham a player Also we probably messed up with answer for old Benjiro/EH (link)
Just becasue if i read correctly in Lotus. Any targeting in first sentence after second colon is still considered as initial targeting
[attachment: image.png] [attachment: image.png]
Yeah. Not great to keep those in separate sections. 🙁 And it matters if the first sentence after the colon starts with "Target" or if it doesn't? Ugh, Lotus Rules, you're crazy.
I thin that one thing is targeting requirements that you need to meet to play the action and another one, totally different, the step when you make target a card
i don't think so
[attachment: printing_5186_2_details.png]
So in Lotus EH / Benjiro:
I announce action then i must must select initial target so my follower in constraints block (without bowing it yet as it's a cost that i have to pay later) and after second colon a target in first sentence (a sentence starting with Target...). At this point Benjiros Reaction may be triggered. If duel resolves and a guy with initially targeted follower is dead, when we return to "pay cost" i don't have such unbowed follower anymore. So i can't pay cost so action stops.
is "initial targeting requirement" a real targeting or not?
my head explode.
We ever get an answer on this?
Yes. Note that this only applied to spending the Favor for the action, not the bow cost version. Also, the gain or loss would stack, not Expendable
To clarify Techno's answer a touch further, they're saying, "Yes, the combo works." not that the question had already been answered. ;P Also, they're saying the action is only Favor (and therefore Repeatable) when you pay the Favor for it, so multiple straightenings won't get you multiple uses.
@kempy_nezumi [ShE, EEex, EE, CE, Legacy, Ivory, 20F, Onyx] if I copy the locked deck I'm using in a tournament and use it (without unlocking it, of course) in another pc (different ip) with another sun and moon client, does the client recognize it's the same deck or it is report as a new deck, thus causing a disqualification?
Yes
Which one?
you should copy locked deck
That's great! I can go visit mom and play there, then. Thanks!
[EE] can falling leaf strike be used to target a monk alrdy at the battle field or do I have to pick a monk outside of the battlefield .
The movement is an effect that can fail, so the Monk can be at the current battlefield
Thank you
[EEex] [EE]
[attachment: 01.jpg]
What is a battle strategy? I am assuming it is a strategy with a battle ability such as the following one. Am I right?
[attachment: 02.jpg]
If that is the case, what happened if the strategy has an open ability and a battle one? Can I recycle it as well?
[attachment: 03.jpg]
Yes.
Yes.
Thanks!
[ShE] The personality created appears at home or at the current battlefield?
[attachment: Sin_titulo.jpg]
Current battlefield. That's the default since Ivory+.
20F/ShE Theoretical rules question... if a card existed that say... destroyed a port... is there some caveat in the rules somewhere that says starting cards (stronghold/sensei/wind) can't be destroyed?
Only Strongholds have such immunity in 20F. It was extended to Sensei and Winds in Onyx+.
where is that in the rules so I can mark it
20F you mean?
yes I belive so
(meaning: yea I am damn sure its about 20f Comprehensive Rules)
20F CR, middle of pg 7
thanks
Thank you.
[Jade] do fortifications provide presence for using their own battle abilities? Is there some other rule that allows fortifications with battle/open abilities to use those abilities without an army present?
Example - can I use the battle ability on [South Wall of Otosan Uchi • Experienced] if I am the defending player at that province with no army assigned to defend ?
Is there any rules arc where the answer is different than Jade?
Fortifications do not provide their own presence.
[Jade] In a match between myself and an opponent with a Unicorn Clan Stronghold, can Hida Yasamura • Experienced 2 https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,%23cardid=3243 be my target personality assigned as the attacker if I play Ambush https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,%23cardid=344 if I assign a non-aligned personality as the defender?
Further, can I assign a unicorn clan personality as a defender, since the assignment of defender happens after the assignment of attacker in Ambush?
Fundamentally, I’m trying to figure out if “the Defender is Crab Clan” refers to the personality or the player and if there are any timing tricks to be aware of
Edit: is there a special format to link cards from oracle? I feel like posting the pictures might be too much
Answers on: Hida Yasamura
If abilty from Fortification will bring Unit into battle i think it's legal.
from JE rulebook:
"If a player does not have a unit in a battle, he or she cannot take any Open or Battle actionsfor the battle unless a card, such as Superior Tactics, specifically brings a unit into thebattle. This is called the "Rule of Relevance.""
https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=3243 https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=344,#cnprintingid=6
correct links
I think there's no separate Infantry and Cavalry assignment while playing Ambush. Ambush doesn't create Attack Phase, it creates battlefield and battle, but without whole Infantry Maneuvers Segment and Cavalry Maneuvers Segment.
Posting links and cards' images is fine
Yes, I thought that if it was a reaction or was using the “bringing a unit to the battlefield” it would work. I was much less sure about generic battle/open abilities. I thought No since I could not find anything saying Fortifications had an exception to the rule of presence, but I knew there were many knowledgeable people here that know more than me
Do your links take you to the card page? Are you on PC? For me on mobile , your links have the same problem as mine. It takes me to Oracle home page
i am on pc, your link created %23 string instead of #
Do you think Hida Yasamura -Exp2 could be chosen by the player playing Ambush to fight a Unicorn personality ?
Can I declare Hida Yasamura -Exp2 as an attacker into a Unicorn player’s province if they have no unicorn clan personalities defending there yet?
No for second question for sure.
For first question, he may assign in Ambush againt any Unicorn Personality, except if played by Crab or Unicorn player.
interesting. So is the Ambush against an unaligned personality controlled by a Unicorn player is OK?
Yasamura can not move or be assigned against a crab or unicorn player.
the key point is the faction of the player not the faction of the personalities in play
ShE - If Yabe has a nagimaki of the fox attached, and uses his ability on himself, what is his force? 5 or 6?
[attachment: RoU_069_details.png] [attachment: printing_11258_1_details.png]
5
Even though the weapon is a static modifier?
Like... when he does it... his force is effectively a +4 from the chi boost... and then he still has a +1 modifier from the weapon... thats my confusion
Yes. To set a stat to a value, give it the necessary bonus or penalty to reach that value. His current Force is 2 (1 +1 from the Weapon) and Chi is 5 (3 +2). To set his Force equal to his Chi, his ability gives him +3F (1 +1 +3 = 5).
ah there we go so it's +3 not +4
https://imgur.com/gallery/tim-curry-clue-1985-KFivO
[Tim Curry - Clue (1985)]
https://tenor.com/view/americas-got-talent-agt-happy-smile-excited-gif-15859366
[EEex/ShE] I dont recall, but can i use an action from a weapon/item/spell if the personality is bowed?
Yes. There's no rule against it.
Thank you!
Man, please add tags. Answer for this question is "no" if we talk about early editions.
Edited thank you, i was not aware that had different rulings in prior editions. I now have a follow up question, which edition started the change?
Ok, my fault. I thought it was true in Imperial, but i checked and i was wrong.
Oh so the rule has always been the same since? I undertand the need for tags I know itll change how things play if I play an older edition and the rules are differentm like how cavalry and naval are different in ShE
Naval and cavalry changed in Ivory. So if we talk about physical formats, Ivory and 20 Festivals are different than Emperor, Celestial, etc. And that changed was kept in both Onyx and Shattered Empire
Could you please explain exactly the modifications for a newbie like me ? thanks !
Please move it to (link)
[Imperial]
Related to my earlier question, but with Bayushi Goshiu (not exp) and with a Black Mail being played by me and losing 3. As the active player, I can then react first with Goshiu to reflect the honor loss to my opponent. Can my opponent then react with giving up the favor to prevent the honor loss from Black Market? Or they can only prevent the honor loss from Goshiu’s ability?
@Brook Cunningham wanted to know your thoughts. Thank you
Answers on: Bayushi Goshiu, Black Market
The player with the Favor can React to either the Black Market loss or the Goshiu loss, preventing either, but they cannot react to the Black Market loss after you activate Goshiu, because you have already lost the Black Market Honor at that point.
My opponent with the favor cannot prevent my Black Market loss before I activate Goshiu’s ability right? That’s what my opponent wants to know. They insist they can prevent the honor loss before I can do anything
Answers on: Black Market
I believe they can. The Favor can negate any loss, not just one's own, if I'm not mistaken.
Correct, you can Favour away _any_ Honour loss.
But, you'd have first option to respond to the Honour loss occurring, so you'd say "I'll use Goshiu to copy the loss to you!", and then you'd get separate reaction triggers for the OG loss to you (so they can no respond), and then you have primary reaction to their new loss.
Nope; this trigger description is incorrect.
The Goshiu basic is after you lose the Honor, not before, which the Favor would be.
(before, or simultaneously at most, but definitely before "after"; once the loss has already happened, you're past the window of negating it.)
Oh, right, yes.
My bad, didn't actually go read the cards.
Really Totally Fine and Cool. 😉
Thanks for your answers @saaam @Brook Cunningham
Hello guys question for Unexpected find for Lotus. Can I play this card, if I pay 3 gold for a 4 gold personality which I wont proclaim?
[attachment: printing_8970_1_details.png]
Answers on: Unexpected, Unexpected Find
Yes. If you take the Clan Discount, you only have to pay 2. If you then pay 3, you've overpaid.
Anyway dont forget this card got errata.
in the oracle says Reaction: After you produce more Gold for a cost than you are paying, put this card into play in your home bowed, and you may not spend the excess Gold. Before your next turn ends, draw a card. If I understand this, I cannot use, even on my next turn, I have to wait for the third turn?
Not sure why you think that? It will straighten at the start of your next turn.
so next turn means the current turn? Thats where I am confused
The card draw is delayed. Sorry, not sure what you mean/meant by "use"?
You can play Unexpected out of your turn, that is the reason for delaying drawing the card until your next turn (or your current one) ends. Also, in oracle for the second reaction you need to bow a holding to produce 1 gold.
sorry for the late reply. i've been looking into this and dug through a couple of rabbit holes. at this point, i can say that the intention of the OBH action sequence is to allow such play patterns like what you've cited for lotus strict
this one
{EExt} The Heirs wrath, Can it be negated by astonish accusation based on targeting, before the effect resolves, even though Heirs Wrath says cannot be negated?
Answers on: Wrath
Almost certainly not, but it would be easier to illustrate why if you could give a specific example of the negation you're using.
The negation is from a card called "astonishing accusation"
Answers on: Astonishing Accusation
Oh yes, sorry! It's late and I misread.
So, AA says, Negate its effects. THW says its effects can't be negated. Pretty cut and dried.
Way I felt but was told its "interupting the targeting" and thus can still be negated.
It's triggered by the targeting, yes, but the negation clearly, explicitly applies to the effects, which cannot be negated. So, you were told incorrectly.
[ShE] According to the comprehensive rules, if you lose honor by anything but your own cards, you can ignore honor requirements when bringing personalities with your own clan alignment into play. So, does that exclude unaligned personalities?
[attachment: Captura.JPG]
Correct.
I see. Thanks!