ShE is a token a card for the purposes of ring of void?
Sun and Moon #rules-questions
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Is token a Fate card? for the purpose of RotV?
a player In L5R, as of Samuri Edition (IIRC), "created cards" are not the same things as "tokens". I assume you are asking about "created cards", and yes, if a created card is one of the Subtypes of "Fate" (Follower, Item, Spell, Strategy, Ring), it is also a Fate card.
question under legacy. Does the shrine of the spirits, give you a clan aligment? Can I use At'tok'tuk Sensei with this stonghold to get rats for 2 less gold?
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Answers on: At'tok'tuk Sensei, Shrine of the Spirits
Yes. The Clan Alignment of the Spirit Stronghold is "Spirit", and the Sensei will give your Rat Personalities "Spirit"... y'know, if the Stronghold isn't banned in the Legacy format you're playing. 😛 EDIT: Oh, and if Ratling Sensei could be used by Spirit, but it's not an "All Clans" Sensei. >_< Sorry I missed that.
ohh and besides, that sensei specified clans, I remembered it was all clans
so nvm, not even possible
EDIT: Misunderstood what you meant.
I think they mean that the sensei lists which clan/factions it will join and Spirit isn't on the list
Answers on: Shrine of the Spirits
So it's not compatible with the Shrine of the Spirits in the first place
Oooooh. I see, I see. Yes, haha, Ratling was not "All".
Ratlings are not meant for so many provinces, 3 at the max 😉
in Legacy you would use ratlings with any other stronghold because of the sensei
even in some formats, they were stronger with other clan strongholds because of the 4 provinces and alliance
That makes sense. Getting to also get clan-specific holdings and such to combine with ratling powers, pretty good
The sensei is also good if you wanna use Shinbone Warrior, Cursed resolve, and Gathering. Combine that with Hunting in the Shadows and your pretty much solved.
[Legacy] Is Zenathaar, Warrior of the Bright Eye, and Qarash, Woodland Warrior, keywords considered warrior for actions that check for the warrior keyword?
Answers on: Qarash
That's a great question. I don't think so, like how Bog Hag wouldn't count as a Bog, or Mikaru isn't a Naga even though he hunts them 😄
That said, any game I'm in I'd allow it, cause she obviously is a warrior
Some of the old cards had really weird keywords. Like the Harrier and Harrier Liaison
Yes, they are.
Edit: Sorry, no.
Harriers were the scouts for Crane
Qarash is, Zenethaar is not.
Rules differences between their Editions.
Keywords are inseparable from SE-legality forward, but LE-legal-only and before, they are separable.
Mikaru had to have special Rules/errata to make him not a Naga.
And I really had to pick my battles as far as making arguments for full Legacy compatibility in a post Ivory environment. So while I would've liked Zenethaar to technically be a Warrior, she isn't, and the only cards that actually care about that keyword were/are exclusively in the Siege:HoD "Adversary" deck (and probably shouldn't be legal outside of that format anyway).
[EE] Yoritomo Emoto. Can his battle action be considered "naval" and thus be used to act before defender when attacking, even if the designated follower does not have the naval keyword?
Answers on: Yoritomo Emoto
The EE Naval Reaction requires that the performing Naval Personality you target also perform the action you take before the Defender.
Since Emoto's ability is on him, he performs it (in addition to the Follower he bows as a cost to do so). This satisfies the requirement.
Thanks
but the ability's text says the follower is the performer. Are both performing then?
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Yes. They are both performing.
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perfectly clarified by the "whether", thanks!
She-
Do traits not follow rules of location?
(If a trait is at battle A, and it can trigger, can it target Battle B? regardless of Trait's location?)
Generally, no; traits are not bound by Location or Presence. Yu traits specifically have some further restrictions, though. What exactly are you asking about?
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at this location...
RTFC, nvm
That... doesn't answer your question, though.
If the +1F token can go to anyone anywhere seems to more be what you were asking? And yes, it can.
The trigger is at his location. The token goes anywhere
Correct.
the death/destruction needs to happen ".. at his location", the token can go anywhere
You were asking initially if the trait could "target" elsewhere, and only the token placement is targeted, hence why I thought you didn't get your answer from your revelation.
yeah, i could have asked it better 😛
[EE] The Compassion of the Unicorn. Can still be played with a target personality that is not bowed, correct?
Answers on: The Compassion of the Unicorn
Correct. The performer needs to be unbowed but the bowed or unbowed state of the target is irrelevant.
She-
If [Natsuko] is opposed by no one, does her trait trigger for all "pirates get +1f"?
@Brook Cunningham
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[ShE] : https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=13800,#cnprintingid=1 Can her consecutive Melee Attacks also be combined ?
Not with each other, no, but separately with others from her unit, yes.
The same reasoning applies for this spell/weapon?
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Yes.
Another follow up question... what happens if the first RA is negated, does the second one still happen?
Depends largely on the wording of the negation effect.
Ok, got it. Thanks!
@Brook Cunningham can we get clarification on this one?
I kicked it up to Design for their intent before getting back. I thought "outnumbered" had been added to the Onyx Rulesheet, but oops apparently not. 😛
It pretty much is what it says, though, and my understanding is that "0" is a number for comparison's sake, but they haven't fully gotten back to me yet. 🙂
Okay, I don't think it ultimately mattered for our game, but it was one of those things I could see being argued both ways.
Yeah I said, when we were playing, " how has this never come up, HUH... 1 is greater than (null)? Nahhhhh" haha
ShE: Just checking, I think I know the answer but someone else asked me to check: Togashi Toa's ability can be used on a face up card in another player's hand or only a face down card?
Either.
Needs fixing then. If it's already up I don't think she should be able to target it. Kinda strong.
[CE] what happens if your SH is city of tears and you play Thunder’s Blessing. Do you get 2 consecutive battle actions to use the abilities on the spell?
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I think its just redundant, cause it is doing the same stuff
moreover to take 2 actions from spell the spell needs to be repeatable or have 2 actions, /oh so it does!/-edit/
They both trigger, but in order to get the benefit of both, you'd need a Spell whose abilities you could use more than OPT (either Repeatable with a cost you could pay twice or two separate abilities).
So in EEex playing this Spell and this Stronghold we could get 3 actions from same Spell (if its able to play them).
Nice isnt.
I think that mix of EE rulebook and CoT is just enough to be treated as good combo.
Depends on which Spells could actually be used that way? :/
Searing Siege
A few spells are repeatable on ce/ee but are costly. Searing seige and essence of destruction. To a less degree strength of tsunami
Strength of Tsunami
If You make Karachu a Shugenja You can have more spells that require bowing for example like The Fire from Within 😛 and I think many more
Karachu is banned in EE and is also in EEex.
Fire from Within is an old card I thing legacy, tho there are for sure faseter ways of wining
(tbh I don't even know which one it is from..)
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That's also why Tadaka from S:CW is banned in OBH because he ignores costs of bowing for Spells.
And nearly all pre Lotus Spells have Repeatable abilities.
Oh yeah. I thought it was because he could destroy Sensei and Holdings until we belatedly fixed him in 2024. 😛 But that's a good reason too.
He was probably banned in OBH even before he became legal in 20F tournament play. So before his faulty ability even got discovered.
I mean earliest ban on changes log (since it started) is House of Black Lion from 5th October 2015.
ShE question. I think I know the answer, but want to double check.
If a player uses a harpoon while unopposed, to target a character at home, if the player at home has an effect that redirects like a spell, can they redirect to another target at home, or since the player doesn't have presence at the battlefield, they don't get to redirect at all?
I want to say the latter, unless the Interrupt redirect has Absent, although I don't think one exists
The Spell would need to be Home and Absent
Home if there is presence and it's on an attachment, Absent if there is no presence, regardless if it's from an attachment or Strategy card, and I'd guess the new target also has to be legal
Thats what I thought, just wanted to make sure, since the initial harpoon was creating a new zone of effect I wanted to make sure absent was still a necessity
It's better than having to print "even if you control no personalities at the current battlefield", or exempting Reactions from the rule of presence for seemingly no good reason, or having an exception in the rulebook that allows movement actions if and only if they create presence.
Too much text on cards and too many exceptions in the rulebook are one of the big problems the original game had. I'd say it's surprising it took them so long to fix it, but Magic also took its sweet time fixing a lot of its problems.
[ShE] If I play Hired Killer, and my opponent uses Tide from Beyond, at what point do I have to pay the gold cost? After or before they redirect?
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Before
so, if I pay to remove a 10-cost personality, and they redirect it to someone who costs 12, the effect would just fizzle?
Not a legal redirect, so they can’t Interrupt
👉 Please tag your rules questions with [edition/format] you are asking for. Please use square brackets like [SE], [OBH], [20F] etc.
apologies... fixed.
[EE] If I understand correctly, the ranged attack can be used even if the personality was already at the current battlefield, correct? since the movement is after the colon, hence not a cost.
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otherwise it would say "if he moved there"
Correct.
thanks. Second question, this can be played to move the personality even without prior presence in the battlefield, right? since actions that move to the battlefield are exceptions to the rule.
That is a Rule of EE, yes.
[EE][CE] Just to be sure Equip is a Limited action right?
Regular Equip is, yes. In EE, there's also a Battle Equip just for Spells that also gives you an additional action to use it after attaching it.
also must be noted that the special sughenja battle equip requires the sugenja to be opposed and unbowed.
You say EE what about CE?
Yes, I could've added that, but I got tired of typing. 😛
Thank you
Equip is also Ltd in CE, but there's no Battle version.
I always assumed they banned him bc the Phoenix control deck with izuna sensei was popular in there format. Give a guy shadowlands and force you to attack into an unstoppable battle action that kills shadowlands is pretty busted.
They banned him the same as they banned Koans robe and hat. Need not to bow for spells is kinda op specially if it board wipes and locks you down
[ShE] Personalities out of play refers to the ones in the discard pile or the ones removed from the game?
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Discard pile or in Provinces.
Oh, I see, and what happens if a personally has 3HR (in a province) and I have 4 dead personalities? His HR is reduced to 0 or to -1?
Sorry I missed this follow-up until now. HR has a Rules exception that it can go below 0, unlike most stats, so it would be -1HR.
No problema and thanks a lot!
[EE] Just verifying; it seems that Reactions do not apply to the Rule of Presence in this edition, just Battle Actions, is that correct?
Reactiona always ignore RoL and RoE. In every edition.
[EE]: Proclaim only once per turn ? Couldn't find any clear explanation in the rulebook on the quick.
Proclaim is one per turn since Lotus. So also in Emperor. In Emperor it's once per turn rulebook player's ability:
(Proclaim) Reaction: After you bring a Personality in your province with your Clan alignment into play without Clan discount, if it is your turn: Gain Honor equal to his base Personal Honor.
👍
[EE-Extended] Are we allowed to use either version of the rings that were in either of these arcs? Or just the MRP?
What is the Sincerity keyword and which rulebook is it in?
Onyx/ShE rules datasheet
thank you
No problem
How long you been lurking in here!?!?
Little bit before sending out the text to you all, but haven't done anything yet.
HMU if you want to mess around with things 🙂
Will do! Not tonight tho. I should be sleeping already lol.
Emperor printings for all cards.
thanks
Am I crazy or is the Duelist keyword technically not defined?
Its a bold Keyword, but it isnt defined in the 20F rulebook or the Onyx Data sheet.
It IS, however, talked about in the 20F Basic rules as the last part of the "Duels" entry.
For 20F ruleset i suggest to use 20F Comprehensive Rules document instead of rulebooks.
Also while asking questions here please follow this: (link)
[Message deleted because im tired and misread the question]
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[CEEEex] Can I redirect the honor loss I would take from Gisei to my opponent with Rhetoric?
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Answers on: Rhetoric
Yes
I agree with Techno above. 🙂
thanks
👉 Please tag your rules questions with [edition/format] you are asking for. Please use square brackets like [SE], [OBH], [20F] etc.
it's specifically for CE/EE Extended, but I believe the question would still apply to any other format in which Rhetoric exists.
There are lot of formats and rulesets in L5R universe. Just be clear while asking questions. That's why i set this rule about tags in posts here. Just add [EEex] or [Legacy] in your post.
alright, I'll edit the post to clarify.
[EE] Rings no longer require successful actions to count for resolving for the ring, correct? (based off the removal of that verbage from the rings)
Correct. "Successful" was never a very well-defined game term, and it was good to see the back of it in EE finally.
[EE] An attack is declared, attacker assigns two personalities, defender assigns one personality to province A - one of the players uses a forced movement effect to move one of the attacker personalities and the defending personality to province B - regardless of the outcome of province B if nothing else happens at province A and the attacker wins, that qualifies for Ring of Earth, correct?
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Answers on: Ring of Earth
Yep. Can't see a reason why not.
[EE] JEKexp can recruit personalities with the Loyal keyword, so long as they also have the Imperial keyword, correct?
Yes. Though, why do you want to Recruit Daigotsu Bofana? 😛
...reasons.
Because they're that committed to a deez nuts joke?
[Imperial]
How do they determine who goes first in official tournaments?
Higher starting Family Honor starts; random in cases of ties.
Note that this is found in the "Optional Rules" section near the back of the Rulebook, along with a statement that it is in effect for official Tournaments.
Aye. Here's quote from late Clan Wars rulebook (Scorpion Clan Coup)
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Thanks. Focusing who goes first is just like a house rule or something
Random card in fate deck, higher focus value goes first
That's the "actual" Rule from front of the Rulebook, except it's the top Fate card, but that's effectively just as random as a cut.
Also, the implication is that the "going first determine card" from the top of the deck is played and spent, so unusable for the actual game.
So, yeah, a "cut/reshuffle" variant of the actually-written "top card" starting Rule appears to be a pretty universal House Rule. I wonder how it became so ubiquitous? Maybe it was in an Imperial Herald magazine or borrowed from another popular CCG of the time?
[ShE] Could someone describe the exact timing involved in playing Actions, Interrupts, and Responses?
I would like to take an action to issue a challenge during battle, use Takao Sensei to search for the Dark Ring of Fire, and then use the Dark Ring of Fire as a response to the challenge.
The Onyx/ShE rulebook just says this step takes place between resolve the action's effects, and discard the action. But, Interrupts are played all at once before resolving, aren't they? So, are Responses treated the same way? Or, am I wrong about how Interrupts work?
Answers on: Takao Sensei, Dark Ring of Fire
This is the action Sequence: Announce > Pay costs > Choose Targets > Interrupts > Resolve the action > Responses.
so, can I play a Response, let it fully resolve, and then play another Response to the same action?
The other player has their own chance to play a Response if they wish and if they have one between your two, but otherwise, yes.
okay, so I can do this then.
Oh, and yes, you were wrong about Interrupts. They work the same as Responses, as we just described above.
alright
and you can't interrupt an interrupt, because interrupts can't be played on interrupts
but if they could, then it would happen in the same sequence as a normal action
I mean, hypothetically, if the Rules allowed such Matryoshka-ing, there could be an Interrupt step inside taking an Interrupt, because it has all the same other steps of a normal action, (Announce > Pay > Choose targets > Resolve). But there's not. So you can't.
alright. So, even if a card like Fall On Your Knees was printed in the next base set or something, it would have to have a triggered trait to function.
Answers on: Fall on Your Knees
and then you couldn't use another one to cancel the first.
I mean, there are pros and cons to the current Interrupt/Response system and to the previous Reaction system. Reactions certainly weren't quite as strict with their timing, which can be kind of awkward when you have to butt into someone doing their own thing to say you have something to play. But we've managed to survive with triggered traits having stuck around since Reactions were removed, and Reaction are basically those, except voluntary and sometimes from your hand as a surprise.
I don't know how to describe my thoughts on this... I've been trying, and it doesn't come off as genuine, or it's changing the subject too much.
I like the way it works now. That's what I mean to say. The past is the past and doesn't relate.
Thank you for all the years that have been put into making this game what it is.
[EE][Legacy] If another personality copies 1st and/or 2nd ability, does the copied ability refer to the personality now or does it still refer to Fodu?
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Copying abilities Effects that copy an ability create a new copy of the ability in question, including any changes to the ability in effect. The new ability will be referred to as the copied ability, and the original ability will be referred to as the source.
Because the copied ability is new, it does not count as having been used even if its source ability has.
References to the source card by title in the source ability become references, in the copied ability, to the copied ability's own card. Example: If Bayushi Ni copies the ability "Bow San: Ranged 4 Attack" from Yoritomo San, the ability on him is "Bow this card: Ranged 4 Attack."
^^ That's from EE Comprehensive Rules Glossary
[others] I know Genjiro was never acknowledged as a legal card. If a personality copies his ability and uses it. Does the player ability it grants still a “Open: Pay 6 gold: Destroy a Genjiro”?
Answers on: Genjiro
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Pay 6 Gold: Destroy a [Personality card that copied this ability].
As part in " " is still part of original Limited ability.
[EEext][Legacy] Can The Thunder Resounds keep copying Katana of Fire ability and keep creating the weapon every time its your turn?
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Answers on: The Thunder Resounds, Katana of Fire
Almost, but problem. Resounds needs to target a Spell at its battlefield, but Katana's action is Limited.
AL creates a battle at limited
And wooden barricades just transfers the katana
So, 3 card combo, ok. 😛 Also, you don't need Wooden; Katana goes anywhere you want already.
But sorry, to answer the crux of your question, any copy of an ability is a new ability, not considered to have already met any use limits that were already met by the original.
So it works with Damning ceremony too. Yikes.
[CE][EE][IvE/20F][Legacy] Is Kyogen and its variant’s ability considered a “copy ability” for effects that check “ability that does not copy abilities”
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Kyogen do not copy abilities. Keyword =/= ability
[Imperial] [Jade] {Hidden Emperor]
My opponent is the Ninja clan, and they use Kolat Assassin. Can I use Court Jester to double their honor loss?
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Answers on: Kolat Assassin, Court Jester
Yes. The Jester does not cause a loss and no loss comes from it; it only modifies a loss the player caused themself.
Nice. What if I use Gift of Fealty on a Pekkle no Oni and give it to the Ninja player? If it gets killed do they get the honor loss
Answers on: Gift of Fealty, Pekkle no Oni
Also going back to this, was there any explanation as to why this method is the official tourney ruling?
Honor loss comes from Pekkle's trait not your card's effects. Pekkle is also not a ninja card despite being targeted by GoF.
This applies to Imperial/ Jade ruling also? Forgot to tag the format in the question since it was a follow-up
No.
Yes.
To confirm, the Ninja player gets the honor loss when gifted Pekkle dies on their side?
We are currently brainstorming how to get Dark Path to -20 honor haha
Right. The Pekkle is not another player's card while the Ninja player controls it, and it read its own triggered effect to its destruction from its last in play state giving the loss to who controlled it.
Awesome, sounds good!
Also, do Ninja clan lose honor when a [ninja] personality dies dishonorably?
Yes. Loss is from the Rulebook not the card. Most of em have 0PH though.