[EE] If the opponent makes me lose honor, do I still need to fulfill the honor requirement of a personality to recruit him?
Sun and Moon #rules-questions
Messages from the Sun and Moon #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
EE uses Clan Discounts and Blood Money. Your opponent causes you Honor loss does not change this
Yes and it depends. There are strategies that were specific in EE some of those strategies specifically said that if it made you loose honor you could bring personalities in play without the honor requirement
I see. Thanks!!!
Cards like “a delicate gamble” will waive honor requirements the rest of the game
I want to post a question but I can’t, is there a restriction or something?
Question with the Ruined city under samurai rules. If you bow the lowest force personality with one spider. Can you target later thw second lowest force personality? Or the same one gets targeted again?
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Answers on: The Ruined City
If you can post a post, you can post a question.
You do have to ask the admin for Roles in the #role channel before you can post images, though, I think.
Thanks @Brook Cunningham what do you think about the question above?
Complicated-ish answer. In Samurai Edition, the Force of a unit at all times is the total Force of its unbowed Personality plus unbowed Followers.
So, in your scenario, if you targeted the Personality with the lowest non-0 Force unit and bowed the whole unit, its Force would then be 0, so you could use another Spider to bow the next-lowest non-0, because it would now be lowest. However, be careful the lowest non-0 Force unit is not your own. It might be? The ability takes both sides into account.
Note: This is different than Ivory+ Rules, where bowed status only affects unit Force during Resolution, and so I'll need to touch up the Oracle wording of that Stronghold. 😦
Thanks @Brook Cunningham
[EE]: Reactions on Personalities can only trigger if they are unbowed ?
Yes.
Did not find it anywhere in the rulebook...
Except of course Reactions wih specific triggers/wordings like "even if bowed" or that work from discard (where cards don't have any bowed or unbowed status)
Reaction is still an action.
Ok thanks... we played it that way but i just wanted to be sure
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In cut above there's also reminder that under EE, Interrupts works nearly same like Reactions as they were introduced in late EE/IvE expansions.
👍
[ShE] If i use ring of Earth to negate the movement, does the invest still happens? meaning, my oponent still "lose" the gold?
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Answers on: Ring of Earth
Yes, those are added costs, which are not effects and are already paid well ahead of you Interrupting with Earth.
Non edition especific; if we are in a tournament and the game crash for both players (the eternal "Reconecting" screen..) do we just restart the game?
That would be up to your TO and should probably be asked in the Tournament specific channel.
Rules for gameplay have always been a separate entity from tournament/floor Rules, and there aren't even any precedential documents regarding the latter to refer to in the case of online Tournaments.
Its rarely double "crash", most common is that one player losts connection. So its up to second player to allow to restart a game.
[ShE]: How does this card work with Overwhelmed when i play them both ? Can i destroy first from the Yu-Trigger after playing Overwhelm or does my opponent have the chance to move beforehand ?
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Yu only triggers from your opponents' actions, not your own. No self-sacrificing for Yu.
Yes, i know... rtfm 😅 ...
[ShE] Are focus effects considered battle actions for the -1 to honor gains from Kisada's funeral?
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Answers on: Kisada's Funeral
They are not "non-Battle actions" because they are not actions at all, so they are not affected.
[ShE] Using the investment of The Unicorn expedition for extra action from card in the unit, can i use the response of Hideyo first and then the adition action from Expedition? 3 actions total; Move, Hideyo response and then card from unit
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Answers on: The Unicorn Expedition
You can, and you also must, Respond with Hideo before taking the additional action granted by TUE. The wording is a little unfortunate/unclear -- it would perhaps be clearer to say "if" they moved rather than "after" -- but the additional action doesn't take place inside/during the other action, it's just dependent upon the movement having happened.
The wording is fine but giving the interaction between 2 or 3 cards yeah, it can be a little messy, thx as allways for the clarifications
[ShE] Can I use the ability of my stronghold to discard a non-kharmic card from my hand to draw a card without paying 2 gold?
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Correct, for the going second side of the SH
Why is the "face up in a province" text in the card then?
You can use it on cards in provinces that are face up
Italics, therefore reminder text that you can't Kharmic facedown cards for any reason
Wow, I just realized that there is an "if" in the italic text... OMG I've been failing to unleash the full power of my stronghold since forever...
Thanks for the clarification!!
Clarification: a stronghold with port does not count for something that looks for port holdings specifically, correct?
Correct. Strongholds are not Holdings. Also, in some Editions, they're not even considered cards, but I hope the Oracle has covered all (most?) of the instances where that matters.
Thank you
[ShE] Pierce the Spirit compares the range attack against the printed force of the follower/personality, right? Now, if a 2F personality has an item attached, such as The Deathless, his printed force would still be 2 when using Pierce the Spirit, or the printed force would be 4 due to the item modifier?
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Answers on: Pierce the Spirit
Printed means exactly that; no bonuses, penalties, or modifiers factored in. So, just 2 in the example.
Great! Thanks a lot!!
Hello guys, question under samurai rules. Is this stronghold ´MOuntain summit temple´ considered MOuntain? I want to confirm if IMperial cartographer gain 1 honor just for the stronghold ?
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Answers on: Mountain Summit Temple, Imperial Cartographer
No. As of SE, titles do not convey keywords.
thanks for the answer
Hello. The other day, while playing with a friend in extended Jade format, a situation arose. I attacked, and he played the terrain: "White Shore Plain." Battle Terrain: Each tactician who hasn't used the tactician trait for this battle gains strength equal to his or her chi. After the end of the battle, he played a counterattack, and he said that bonus lasted until the end of the turn since it was a use of a tactical ability.
Is this really the case?
Answers on: White Shore Plain
The question is: if the strength bonus is maintained until the end of the resolution where the terrain was, or if it is maintained until the end of the turn so that it is buffed in another battle when using the counterattack.
I don't upload an image of the letter because the application doesn't let me or I don't have permissions.
Yes, the Force bonus lasts until the end of the turn, but not exactly for the reason your friend stated; the Terrain bonus was not considered Tactical at that time (during Jade) and whether it is or not is irrelevant to duration anyway. The ongoing effects of any action last until the end of the turn by default if not otherwise explicitly stated, and this is true in the case of Terrains in Jade Edition too.
But that's terrible. Let's say Defendant gives you a tremendous strength bonus with a card, clears your attack, and then counterattacks with the same bonus and destroys all your provinces. That's very broken.
On the other hand, it's a piece of land. If I destroy it, that bonus is lost, right?
The bonus is for the terrain. If i destroy It de bonus: lose?
Under Jade Rules, yes; if you destroy it before the Resolution of the Battle in which it was played, it does not resolve (Terrain effects in Jade resolve immediately before Battle Resolution unless they explicitly say otherwise; some take effect as soon as they are played, but not White Shore).
Let's say a common or uncommon card, if you don't destroy it before resolution, I'll win the game. That card is very broken.
It's not just that card, though. That scenario also massively depends on having a Counterattack in hand along with your opponent having no answer to the Terrain or the Counterattack.
The scenario isn't very difficult to imagine. In all three of the night's games, he won all three times, and in all three, h
could help
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You need to ask for a role in (link) to get one, only people with roles can post images
As for if a card is broken or not:
A) it would be more appropriate to discuss it in the relevant arc channel, and B) back then, during the wild west era of CCGs, a ton of cards were broken. Feel free to take a look at deck lists in our relevant retro tournaments and guess the combos
Thanks for the answers
Other question: In the Jade Extended format, can an attacking unit that's already been in combat resolution this turn be able to attack again this turn? I haven't seen anything about it in the manual.
Mostly because the situation could arise: I attack, the opponent then counterattacks. Since I become the defending player, could I counterattack in response?
Yes. In Jade Ex same unit may be in multiple battle resolutions same turn or even same attack phase.
Also please add [JadeEx] (or other format acronym) at beginning of rules questions. Thanks.
It should be noted specifically that even if the "No Second Battle" Rule did exist in Jade, it only limits attacking units from being in 1 Battle Resolution per Attack Phase, and each Counterattack creates a new Attack Phase anyway, so no matter what Edition, the interaction would be the same for the described scenario.
So, how is it? Because they gave me two different answers. One told me yes, in the same turn but not in the same phase, and the other told me yes, in the same turn and same phase.
Which of the two is correct?
There is no rule against personalities participating in multiple battle resolutions in Jade Extended. As long as you can get there, you can do it.
We didn't give two different answers. Jade Edition does not have the "No Second Battle" Rule, so it is ok to do same turn or phase. I was just clarifying that even if it did have that Rule, or in other Editions that do, the double-Counterattack scenario would work the same regardless.
I didn't understand well. My English isn't very good. I'm sorry.
No problem. I am happy to clarify.
So up to Gold edition a single unit could be in different battle Resolutions same Battle Phase eg Unit A assigns to Province A, battle resolves, it goes home. Then during battle at Province B, player may move same Unit A to this battle at Province B. Then after resoluton of Province B battle, when Unit A is in home, it still may move it again to Province C during battle there.
In Diamond Edition they introduced "No Second Battle" rule that say same unit can't move into another battle if it was in battle resolution same Attack Phase.
But we still talk about same Attack Phase, not same turn.
Cards like Counterattack create completely new Attack Phase.
In Barcelona, we're trying to revive the game a bit. We've started with (Jade Extended), and on July 19, we'll hold a tournament. And of course, there are many things we don't know or don't fully understand about the format.
Aenril, If you need help I am from Sevilla. We can talk in spanish in the spanish channel
[Jade ext] We just had another question about the Counterattack card.
Situation: My opponent attacks. The battle is resolved. I play a counterattack. This second battle phase is resolved. I play Rallying Cry. I play Counterattack again.
My partner says it's possible. I explain that it's not possible because the card says that after the last resolution phase, I should be the defender. When I play the first counterattack, I become the attacker, and even though my turn is as a defender, the second attack phase I created with the counterattack makes me the attacker for that segment.
Could you clarify this situation for me?
From 2003 FAQ
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I am just wondering if it's true in Jade Ex as this FAQ may consider Gold era printing.
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Effectively, if I'm reading the cards right, you'd need to play both Counterattacks after the initial battle, and Rallying Cry after the first Counterattack
(link)
Rallying if after a single battle, counter is after the last segmento (last battle)
Player A attacks Player B. Resolver battle 1 and play Rallying Cry. Then Resolver the other battles and Player B can play Counterattack
I'm sorry but I'm not understanding
That's the thing, if I'm reading them right, if you were to try to play the second Counterattack after the Attack Phase from the first ends, would it not be illegal because it's after the resolution segment of the Counterattack? Or is it legal because technically, it's still after the original Attack Phase?
IMHO you play CA, then RC and then you may play another CA
not
You play CA twice, then you play RC after first Attack Phase of first CA
If you can play your second CA after, because as above it's still after the original Attack, then it doesn't really matter when because both would still resolve, creating two consecutive Attack Phases with flipped attacker/defender?
I think the idea is more Player A attacks B, Attack phase resolves, Player B plays CA, B plays RC for the first battle with all his units, then B plays the second CA to attack again with the same units
For more confusion earlier rulings.
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But for that to be possible, the counterattacks would have to be rolled at the same time, i.e., reaction counterattack. Counterattack. The first counterattack is resolved. You play rally. The second counterattack is resolved.
Not exactly. As you play first CA, game stops here at this trigger - you resolve new Attack Phase, then game returns to same trigger.
In open I remember playing CA, then RC and another CA. As you are reacting before the attack phase ends
Ah, that's what I was wondering
If it returns to the same trigger, the second CA can be played technically at any point after that trigger starts and before moving to Dynasty
Okay. But with the first counter, you're creating a new attack phase where you become the attacker. If you then play a counter in the last attack phase, you're no longer the defender.
Yes, however, you're still in the same turn as an attack phase where you were the defender, and as long as you haven't passed to Dynasty, you can play a second CA since it only requires to be played after the resolution segment, not immediately after
This is important in case you have some kind of card draw that could get you the second CA during the attack phase of the first CA
Something like this. Player A attacks (1) Player B. Resolves (1)battle 1 and play RC. Ends the last segmento (1) and player B play CA for attack (2), Resolves all attack phase (2) and now A can play a CA for (2) or B play another CA for (1)
Well, let's not confuse other issues. "After" does generally mean "immediately after" in L5R. It's just in this case, the entire additional Attack Phase is considered to be happening in the space of "immediately after" the previous one, so the trigger for another Counterattack is still at the proper timing even after going through all of that.
Do defenders bow in Jade after a combat resolution?
Not normally.
Because I'm wondering about why in this example B would play RC after (1) battle 1. He should play it after (2) battle 1 to have his units unbowed and ready for (3) battle 1
Yeah, a player put the RC in the wrong spot.
I'm sorry. I understand that they say yes. I understand that it's possible. But I don't understand why. Maybe it's because my English is very basic.
So, let's see if we can break it down:
A attack B. Attack phase (1) resolves, B has unbowed units B plays CA at end of (1), creating (2) B assigns all units to (2) battle 1 B plays RC at end of (2) battle 1 (2) ends, A can play his own CA If not, game state reverts to end of (1), B plays second CA, creating (3), assigns units as he wants
Any errors?
Very technically, I would say it didn't "revert" to the end of (1) so much as it "never really moved on", but that's a minor point.
Well, if it's at "end of (2)", it's layered on top of "end of (1)", which never stopped existing, and "end of (2)" takes precedence. By "revert", I do mean the layer of "end of (2)" stops existing
And yes, I'm aware that L5R doesn't do "layers" like that, it's just my attempt at a shorthand
I see.
It's the same logic I had to both CAs being played simultaneously at the end of (1) earlier: both new Attack Phases exist simultaneously, but since they can't resolve simultaneously, they're "layered" on top of each other. Regardless in which order, one has to fully resolve and have its layer "removed" for the other to be resolved as well
Okay, I got it now. Thank you very much.
Nop, RC was not played by B but by A. There is a "." Between first and second phrase. I know that RC is played after a battle (an usually by the attacker) I think was obvious and not explain more.
Ok, sure, to set up the possibility of their own CA after B's first, I guess? But the main thrust of the question was B CA'ing twice, so A's RC looked out of place, especially since you didn't have B play RC after his first CA to set up his own second.
Y put RC onlybto show when is played. I remember some games in open format with a couple of RA and CA in the same turn for every player. Too much violence xD
Just to piggy back on this counterattack question. Let's say I'm player 1. I attack player 2. After the last resolution segment. Player 2 plays retribution. After the ret resolves, is it my window to play a Retribution of my own? Or my opponents window to play a second Retribution.
Answers on: Retribution
is swaping chi with force considered force penalty?
Answers on: Veteran Gunso
what I wonder its if it can be negated with veteran gunso for example or the likes of it
under SHE
Your Ret React to his Ret-caused Attack would be before his second chance to Ret again.
Yes. To swap or set stats is to give an appropriate bonus or penalty such that they reach the new value.
then I think my black watch sensei is going to be useless hehe
Answers on: Black Watch Sensei
I mean, the primary use is to make your own high-Chi guy suddenly high-Force. Tanking a low-Chi guy's Force is just a bonus. 😛
can you negate the force penalty from a token
Yes. But it will reassert after the turn ends, if we're assuming the same sort negation effect as Veteran Gunso.
Weird ShE question. As Ring of the Void is no longer an action to put into play, if another action (not cost) changes the amount of cards on the field, can you put the ring into play before the action fully resolves?
For example, if you play a second edict, can you put the ring into play before the action removes the first edict?
Since Void is a trait, it enters play when its conditions are met, even in the middle of an action resolving. Your Edict example is correct
That's whacky!
Triggered traits trigger whenever they want/can. They're rather like Reactions in that regard, if you're familiar with that action-type from pre-Ivory?
Except Reactions are always optional. Traits are mandatory.
True, though some traits are optional too.
yeah thats a) good to know and b) pretty wild
[OBH] Depths of Jigoku: what exactly is meant by an 'oni card' that isn't also covered by a 'shadowlands follower'? (I mean it can't be just Parasite, right?)
Answers on: Depths of Jigoku, Parasite
Suchiro no Oni
Ok, Oracle lists a few more, idd. Are Strategies that target oni specifically also covered by this?
No.
ok, thx
Answers on: Oni Warding
While on the subject 'Oni Warding' lists as an Oni spell, which seems a bit odd as it is an anti-oni card.
Probably due to title-keyword inheritance, just checking if it is correct
Titles conveyed keywords then; yep, that's why.
hello guys, question for hantei sensei. Does anyone has a list, of most important cards per clan or deck type to have handy for him? for both Jade, jade extended and legacy?
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I feel I need a paper or something right besides me to properly use him
Hi. Please ask such questions in (link) or (link) or even (link) . Keep this thread focused on rulings. Thanks.
[Gold]: Is there a Rulebook usage of the Imperial Favor ? Or can it by default only be used if i have a wind card ? On page 69 of the Rulebook i only find this one but i understand it as alternative usage. So if i don't have a wind card can i automatically use that one from the screenshot or only if the game or the tournament allows that in particular ?
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Wind isn't mandatory but there are no rulebook favor actions in Gold.
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[Legacy] Battle resolution is after the combat segment right? not part of it
Correct.
Combat segment is when Battle actions are played.
thank you
[ShE] Just to clarify; Does this destroy the target if they have no followers even if they were not bowed? and im guessing the +2F is for the shugenja that is activating the spell
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1. They do not have to have bowed for the destruction to apply, but they do have to be 0F or Shadowlands. Because the sentence is linked with "and", the starting "If" condition must be true in order for either or both effects to happen. There is just an additional condition upon the destruction of "no Followers", but whether the bowing happens or is negated is irrelevant to the destruction.
2. Yes. Though, it is not something to be assumed. In the absence of other context, a pronoun will always refer back to the previous named noun, in this case, "this Shugenja".
Question: Can the Kolat Master target a loyal personality and keep it?
Answers on: Kolat Master
You can target any other players' Personality with 3 or less Chi, but if they are Loyal and you don't have their Clan Alignment, or if they "Will not join [X]" and you are X, then taking control of them will fail. The Follower destruction will still happen, though, if you're playing in an environment that doesn't just ignore any interaction with Follower HR.
Thanks
(link)
It was a general question. It wasn't about a specific arch or a particular format.
It's still question about card/ability. In such case just add [Legacy]
Don't forget that also various cards got reprinted and have different wordings in various editions. Adding [Legacy] at least clarifies you are asking about MRP (most recent printing) version.
[Modern]: Is there a maximum PH a Personality can have ? I know from Celestial that it is 5.
In 20f theres no cap so it is in Modern as well
Ooooh.
[OBH] is an undead samurai a human samurai?
UNDEAD # “Undead” is a keyword with meaning in the setting. It does not mean “not dead” in terms of the game state.
An undead is human if the card do not have the nonhuman trait. Voitagi for example
[modern] luxurious silk works with recruit and equip? or only for actions on cards?
Only for actions which is not recruit and equip
Actually, Modern uses 20F rules format. Recruit and Equip are considered Dynasty and Open Actions respectively
So the Reaction on Lux. Silk can be used for those actions
It’s a busted Holding in Modern
This was modified in OBH and warning about this in the las OBH tournament but there is no warning abut this topic in the modern tournament
didn't LS get nerfed?
As Efrim said, just by TO in the last OBH tournament.
I have two tasks about the tournament. Build the deck and read the rules xD. I have a slot avalaible for LS, if can be use for recruit and equip would be nice 🙂
[Modern] Naval and Cavalry are only one per turn? (I left the game in Emperor)
a player in Modern LS will pay for Recruit. Its singleton format and one such card in a deck isn't problematic as playset in OBH.
Yes