Messages from the Sun and Moon #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
A player, 4 December 2024 18:40
Hi. Im new around, nice to meet you all. Kindly help me with this question here: If Genshin sensei erase my personality habilities this turn, would that affect Wasp's vow hability attached to that personality: "...This weapon's force modifier equals the Personality's highest printed non-variable Ranged Attack strenght." Should I assume my guy is blank and the re is no "printed" thing to get the bonus ?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 4 December 2024 18:44 · in reply
Right. Something looking for an ability won't find one if the ability was removed, regardless of whether it's looking for a "printed" one or not. It just means that it will only find printed ones when there are ones to find.
A player, 4 December 2024 18:47
Great, thank you!
A player, 4 December 2024 23:39
Sometimes the rules of this game still throw me for a loop. To use the reaction, Juro must be at the battlefield of the spell that's resolving? Because of Rule of Location? Was this card perhaps from a different era of those rules, which is why it's worded strongly to indicate he can gain the honor from home?
[attachment: printing_547_1_details.png]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 4 December 2024 23:40
Reactions are not subject to Presence and Location Rules.
A player, 4 December 2024 23:41
Thanks! This makes the card make sense to me again, all is right in the world (until I forget another rule from 20 years ago and then things will no longer be right)
A player, 5 December 2024 00:03
Right. But their successors are, correct? Responses and Interrupts?
A player, 5 December 2024 00:07
Responses and Interrupts require being present
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 5 December 2024 00:15 · in reply
Correct.
A player, 5 December 2024 01:01
I have been struggling to create a Phoenix bloodspeaker deck for Diamond. I have 2 ideas, one is using Kyuden Agasha and bloodspeakers personalities (phoenix and shadowlands) to reduce chi and control with chi, and the other is city of blood and using big shugenjas, Samurais and Yoma Sensei, but this one seems is not good at reducing chi. But no matter how I look at it, I feel its not a competitive deck. Does anyone knows if bloodspeakes was actually a good theme for phoenix? or should just give up and use a shadowlands one? anyone has any good phoenix blodspeaker deck?
A player, 6 December 2024 01:52
Hello guys
A player, 6 December 2024 01:52
ShE
A player, 6 December 2024 01:52
[attachment: image.png]
A player, 6 December 2024 01:53
My Higaru is targeted by Call of inferno plus +# so 7RA
A player, 6 December 2024 01:53
i interrupted with Master's Guard
A player, 6 December 2024 01:53
does Pierce the spirit target my personality or the new target so Follower?
A player, 6 December 2024 01:56
[attachment: image.png]
A player, 6 December 2024 01:56
Master's guard's ability specifically says it targets it, if legal
A player, 6 December 2024 01:57
if you used the interrupt
A player, 6 December 2024 01:57
but I will leave it to the better rules guys to say for sure
A player, 6 December 2024 01:58
[attachment: image.png]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 6 December 2024 01:58
I feel like there's some disconnect here.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 6 December 2024 01:59
Call the Inferno is targeting Higaru, you Interrupt the Call RA action with The Masters' Guard. So, now the RA targets the Guard. Where does Pierce come in?
A player, 6 December 2024 01:59
my oponent says that piers targets Higaru
A player, 6 December 2024 02:00
I say that current target is Master's Guard so it is not legal
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 6 December 2024 02:00
Pierce doesn't target anything. It modifies the RA to compare against printed Force rather than current.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 6 December 2024 02:10
Sorry, I didn't read Higaru to realize he wasn't.
A player, 6 December 2024 02:17
but I could equip it to my other shugenja (had 3 shugenjas in my army) to redirect spell?
A player, 6 December 2024 02:17
that was targeted at Higaru?
A player, 6 December 2024 02:21
Technically you can play Masters guard to still protect Higaru as long as it attaches to a Shugenja. It doesn't actually seem to care who the original target was
A player, 6 December 2024 02:21
thanks i thought the same
A player, 6 December 2024 02:22
but the fact i tottaly forgot that it had to be atached top shug is silly 😄
A player, 14 December 2024 01:13
Can i redirect my enemy RA or MA onto his Cards using her interrupt
[attachment: image.png]
A player, 14 December 2024 01:13
[attachment: image.png]
A player, 14 December 2024 01:23
No, because rulebook rules for melee, ranged and fear actions must target ENEMY (card(s))
A player, 14 December 2024 01:24
but was there sth that could do the trick cause I remember case that it worked like that?
A player, 14 December 2024 01:24
recently in ONyx around enviroment
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 14 December 2024 01:27 · in reply
Master of Puppets (Onyx, Spell)
Jeff Williamson (rules official), 14 December 2024 01:32 · in reply
Celestial edition rules: if a Personality receives a force increase/decrease, then dies, then is brought back to the battlefield via Will or some other effect, the force modification remains, correct?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 14 December 2024 17:26 · in reply
Unless it was token-based, yes. Card memory persists unless the card becomes both out of play and face-down.
A player, 17 December 2024 20:43
What happens if I don't have a lion clan personality in my discard pile?
[attachment: image.png]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 17 December 2024 20:47 · in reply
You can't take the action because you can't meet the required targeting.
A player, 17 December 2024 20:47
can't the required targeting (the first sentence) fail?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 17 December 2024 20:49 · in reply
Required targeting is required to even announce the action. The effects can fully fail and result in no change to the game state, but the targeting must be met.
A player, 18 December 2024 16:02
Hello guys, question for the card chasing Osano wo, under gold and diamond rules. both the diamond and gold rules dont say a shugenja at any location, meanwhile the celestial version onwards, says at any location. Can I bow any shugenja even if its out of battle to give a shugenja at the current battle the force bonus? (gold and diamond I mean)
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 18 December 2024 16:11 · in reply
Yes. The wording had to be updated to keep its original function because the Rules changed in Samurai Edition.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 18 December 2024 16:12
Also, note that the in-battle target doesn't have to be a Shugenja.
A player, 18 December 2024 18:37
If I copy a Tactical ability onto a non-tactician can they just... not use the ability?
[attachment: image.png] [attachment: image.png]
A player, 18 December 2024 19:03
I think they still can. Tactical actions that require the Tactician keyword are those printed on strategies as part of their required [your Personality] targeting and the rulebook Tactical Advantage action.
However, I may be wrong in this, since it's more of an edge case
Jeff Williamson (rules official), 18 December 2024 20:14
Tactical in the Onyx Rules Datasheet requires you to target an unbowed Tactician, so you would have a dead ability.
[attachment: IMG_2054.png]
A player, 18 December 2024 20:37
doesn't an ability or keyword copied to a card count as being on the card? Because if so, the required targeting of a unbowed Tactician isn't needed (if the copy is still considered to not be on the card, disregard)
A player, 18 December 2024 22:59
In Celestial rules: if the duel ends in a tie, both player loses even if one of them has a duelist personality?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 18 December 2024 23:23 · in reply
It is "on"/"from" but not printed.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 18 December 2024 23:25 · in reply
Yes, both lose. "Duelists win ties against non-Duelists" is not a CE Rule. The benefit for Duelist in CE is focusing first against non-duelists with equal or higher duel stat, even if they were the challenger.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 20 December 2024 02:39 · in reply
Assuming the trait hasn't already triggered its one time this turn: Player 1 plus Overwhelmed. Player 2 chooses not to move anyone and instead targets their highest Force Personality for destruction. Before the destruction occurs, Player 1 must discard 2 cards or the destruction is negated.
A player, 20 December 2024 02:40
Thats what I thought but "must" threw me off
A player, 20 December 2024 15:45
Celestial edition rules: Is discarding the card part of a Strategys cost? I.e. if somehow the costs are ignored, it doesn't get discarded?
A player, 20 December 2024 15:47
Can you give an example?
A player, 20 December 2024 15:49
[attachment: printing_5555_1_details.png]
A player, 20 December 2024 15:51
I believe the Strategy still goes to the discard, in hindsight, since Smoke Cover's last sentence doesn't make any since otherwise, but just found that example
[attachment: printing_7306_1_details.png]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 20 December 2024 15:53 · in reply
Strategies just naturally go to the discard after being played and resolving, unless their effects have them enter play. It's neither a cost nor an effect of the card/action itself.
A player, 20 December 2024 23:02
Celestial edition rules: Active player plays Heart of Darkness, non-Active player plays Reckless Rush - at battle resolution, which resolves first?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 21 December 2024 20:23 · in reply
Battle resolution is also during a battle. 😛
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 21 December 2024 20:25 · in reply
You may also be confusing the question? Hinosai was asking about the new Yu trait introduced in the Onyx/Shattered Empire set Gates of Tengoku, not the old Yu keyword.
A player, 23 December 2024 00:06
question with Only actions speak. If my personality has more than 7 base force, but it has now lower force than the enemy personality, can I bow his unit?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 23 December 2024 00:11 · in reply
Unfortunately, "its" in the second sentence would refer to the entire modified noun in the prior sentence, so "a target enemy card with lower Force and without attachments". If it is not such a thing, neither effect can happen.
So, example, base force 7, reduced to 5, targets a card with 3 Force (let's say a Follower since I'm assuming attachments count), then bows the unit. Would that be a correct rules interpretation?
A player, 23 December 2024 00:44
it should since it's using base force for the bowing
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 23 December 2024 00:44 · in reply
"Base" means "printed", so yeah, that still all works as you described.
A player, 23 December 2024 19:38
I have question can this follower be used consecutively onvce attached to personality in Battlefield and then in his controller next action from the discard (efectivly banishing it)
[attachment: image.png]
A player, 23 December 2024 19:41
Face-up cards in the discard retain card memory. The Battle action is not Repeatable
A player, 23 December 2024 19:41
I would say no because the Battle action is not Repeatable and the Card did not lose memory when moved to discard pile.
A player, 24 December 2024 13:01
ShE-Rules Situation Churo has a lot of followers attached. Unit gold cost is 21. Daigoro and Churo are both in their Homebase. The Opponent plays "The Bad Death of Hida Daizo" targeting Churo. I destroy one follower to counter the Strategy.
Questions 1) Does my Opponent have to pay the 21 gold even if i "interrupt" his action from the Strategy? I know there were some differences between the newer Formats when an Interrupt is resolved (before or after paying the cost of the action).
2) Does Daigoros response trigger after i destroy my follower on Churo ? In the latest Rulebook of ShE "Comprehensive Rules for L5R_ Twenty Festivals - AEG Rules" it says, "An Interrupt is a type of action played during another action." (Page 81)
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 24 December 2024 13:12 · in reply
1) No, there are no differences. Interrupts always happen after Costs are paid.
2) You cannot Interrupt or Respond to an Interrupt or Response, only to a non-Interrupt/Response action. Daigoro cannot combo with Churo at all.
A player, 24 December 2024 13:51
[attachment: FB_IMG_17182703092667890.jpg]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 24 December 2024 13:52 · in reply
Huh. Odd. My mistake; what format is that from?
A player, 24 December 2024 13:52
I was referring to this one, but dont know what format it was from
A player, 24 December 2024 13:52
😅
A player, 24 December 2024 13:53
Maybe Ivory or 20F
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 24 December 2024 13:56 · in reply
Hrm. Definitely not an official one like Ivory or 20F; the proper sequence in both is: Announce * Pay Cost * [Choose Targets] * Interrupt * Resolve (the bracketed step was added in 20F, but the others didn't move).
I guess it might be OBH Legacy or Modern? I vaguely recall one or both of those flipped "choose targets" and "pay costs" around to happen in the opposite order, but I guess maybe one or both messed with Interrupt timing too.
Now, you can chain a "reaction" to another "reaction," right?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 24 December 2024 13:59 · in reply
Reactions work fairly radically differently than Interrupts/Responses, despite the latter two action types "replacing" the first. Yeah, "Reactions" are not bound by hardly any constraints like their successors, and you can React inside a Reaction inside a Reaction as you like (assuming the appropriate triggers are happening).
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 24 December 2024 14:08 · in reply
Indeed. To be a bit more comprehensive in my explanation, Reactions are pretty much just like triggered traits except that they're abilities and therefore carry with them all that means, chiefly in that it's optional whether to use them or not, and also being once-per-turn by default. Otherwise, their timing is just "when the trigger happens" and they're not bound by Presence or Location Rules.
discards the favor to cancel with Imperial Edicts from Jade
kempy_nezumi (not official), 24 December 2024 18:44 · in reply
Its from OBH. Its their format decision to follow this order.
A player, 26 December 2024 00:01
can a personality have a weapon and also another item put on them that is NOT a weapon? they can have both right? So a weapon, an item, a follower, and a spell?
A player, 26 December 2024 00:02
Yes
A player, 26 December 2024 00:03
Thanks. that will be relevant for the decks I will play the next two tournaments.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 December 2024 00:05 · in reply
Only Items with the Armor and Weapon keyword are resticted to one of each type; one Weapon (or two for "Kensai") and one Armor. All other attachments are unlimited; any number of non-Armor/Weapon Items/Followers/Spells.
in some early Editions, Shugenja were limited by their Chi to how many Spells they could attach. This was dropped later.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 December 2024 00:07
Oh, and also-also, in the last Edition or two, they introduced "one-handed" and "two-handed" Weapons, and Kensai couldn't hold two of the latter.
A player, 26 December 2024 00:08
Oh interesting. Other types of items, unlimited. I didn't know the last rule mentioned. So a Shugenja can have three Chi and four or five spells?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 December 2024 00:10 · in reply
I can't remember which Edition that Rule was dropped; please consult your Rulebook if you're playing a retro simulation format. 🙂 But in the latest formats, 20F/Onyx, there is no Spell-attachment limit based on Chi in the Rules.
A player, 26 December 2024 00:13
Nice. Well, I rarely attach more than three anyway and ususally I limit myself to two. I have the most amount of spells in my Phoenix decks since that is their strength, and even then I limit it to 20.
A player, 28 December 2024 17:53
Shattered Empire question
A player, 28 December 2024 17:54
what happends during resolution of raid created by this Sensei to enemy personalites?
[attachment: image.png]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 28 December 2024 17:56 · in reply
Unless otherwise stated, per the Onyx/ShE Rules Datasheet, Raid battles' resolutions don't destroy defenders.
A player, 29 December 2024 08:13
Q: 'Rosoku Sensei' and 'Visions of Doom' mention allowing only 1 action per phase unconditionally putting cards in your hand... What exactly do they mean by this? Doesn't the fact that it comes from an action make it conditionally (the condition being the action getting activated to begin with)?
kempy_nezumi (not official), 29 December 2024 08:33
kempy_nezumi (not official), 29 December 2024 08:40
I believe if you play an ability with eg delayed drawing card effect that triggers at some point later - it's just conditionally one. Like "Battle: next time this battle if X is destroyed, draw a card". Or Open: Next time X assigns or move to battlefield, draw a card."
kempy_nezumi (not official), 29 December 2024 08:46
Also, Rosoku's text in Oracle follows official errata that removes "unconditional" from it's text.
[attachment: obraz.png]
kempy_nezumi (not official), 29 December 2024 08:47
It also means that Rosoku text negates even such delayed effects. Visions of Dooms is still same as in card.