Sun and Moon #rules-questions

With this wording its legal to challenge with bowed guy. Its really strong and rarely seen effect on duel card.

And this one has solid FV and Discipline. So i assume its just staple card for any dueling.

And as its Repeatable you may play it same turn twice. And even you got additional Honor if you do this.

yeah, thinking about it, it's as though made for either having 1 duelist duel 2 targets from 1 card, or the same target twice from the same card, including if you lost the first time

Modern.

Does Kyuden Kyotei trait allow to search for Market holding as for Legacy holding for second player?

I am asking becauae of starting procedure. Stronghold is revealed at A, starting Legacy rule kicks at B, but "real game" starts at F.

From Modern CR:

So is the issue when do we consider the Stronghold trait active? As soon as Strongholds are revealed or only when the game actually begins?

Yes, here's a main reason behind my question.

I am 99% sure it's legal to start with any Market as Legacy Holding in case of Kyuden Kyotei being second player.

"Once per unit per battle"

Sorry. I didn't get the answer

No. English is not my mother tongue.

I don't know that tuppence means

It's a small payment. At this point effectively it's British slang

how is it related to the ability?

He was making a joke on the ability that doesn't translate well

Oh. okay. I misunderstood.

used to mean two pence, an archaic plural of pennies, the joke is a reference to an old comedy monologue that I admittedly hadn't heard before myself

I think I knew that at some point but it's been ages since I've had to use that knowledge.

Hopefully this is both correct, though, and answers Kakita's question

this is how I would interpret the ability as-printed, too

Enough Talk! Let's play!

would if I could but I can't so I won't

I dont think anyone was saying it was wrong, just that we were having trouble parsing it. Between ESL and not playing in that era

Gotta get that YuGiOh font size!

Depends on the arc and ruleset.

I'm so sad that in modern arcs you can no longer Favour Home a Defending Unit. That used to be hot.

And it'd bow them, to boot!

Or being able to Lobby even if you had less Honour, but could make up the difference by bowing a couple of high-PH Personalities, maybe discard a Fate card as a gift, and stealing the Favor away...

Nice!

I get that its awkward, but once in a while made for really entertaining and engaging gameplay.

So Oni no Chi reads like so in the Oracle: "This oni is brought into play as a Limited Ritual action. Bow and destroy any number of your shugenja to bring this Oni into play. The Oni has a Force equal to half of the total chi of the participating shugenja and a Chi equal to the number of participating shugenja. This Personality may not be brought into play during your dynasty phase. Lose Honor equal to the Oni's Chi."

Does that mean that it has fractional Force?

Or, rather, can have fractional Force?

for tsukimi's ability, doe the personality that she can copy need to be at the same battle?

Yes.

Rule of location.

i guess its a limiter too then huh

Yeah. For some cards it was round down, for others round up, depending on whether it would balance the power of the card or not.

Fairly sure Oni no Chi was played as round down in the Ancestral Before Time. For the half-dozen or so times he might actually have seen play...

Half-dozen times... across the entire globe.

Possibly including the multiverse.

I haven't found anything.

btw i also havent found why there's "rounded up" in Oracle https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=1446

So, I don't think this holds with recent cards, but many of the rounding cards are "round detrimentally". So Gold costs and Honor losses round up, bonuses round down. But that's certainly not universal (Maho-Tsukai, Nature Provides, etc.).

To be fair, any time you want your Oni no Chi to be anything except maybe "in my Crimson and Jade binder", it's because [obscure effect].

Fun fact: bringing Oni no Chi into play is the only non-Spell Ritual action in game. Not that there's anything to DO with that, mind you.

I suppose if you're so inclined, you could try to do something silly involving stacking multiple Ritual bonuses to Chi to make the Oni's Force kinda almost relevant. In Legacy play, some cheap Chi-dominant shugenja (Isawa Koizumi, Isawa Tanayama XPCW, Tanemono, that sort of thing) + Purification [the RoB one] + Incense of Concentration?

I ... that's still awful. But it's at least a little unexpected.

I believe in earlier editions of the game you needed particular card effects to combine ranged attacks from separate units

we are playing OBH so it would be 20f rules

does enemy weapons and armors contribute to duels with My monks to my opponents personalities chi

Fire shugenja cast Cti and targets personality for ra 4. If I combine it with BtM, for a total of ra 8, would the target bow? Due to BtM effect?

I had to clarify my question

Ok

Thanks

I always thought that the "any modifications" part only refers to the strength. Since later in the explanation, it says "All other characteristics of the attack effect come from the original."

So Burn the Mind can be combined with another RA and the bowing effect doesn't carry over.

Unless BtM is the original that the others modify

Can I use city of night exp to reuse the duel from home?

Or does the personality with the spell have to be used battle?

Ah wait, I misunderstood, it's a home spell

I think the spell needs to be in the battle to be targeted by the holding at all.

There's problem becasue in whole Ivory cardpool there's probably only one card that have attack as battle action with "instead" in their effect (Utaku Sakiko exp from ThA). And there's no single question about her ability.

btw found some funny basic math answer about something with ra https://imgur.com/SF0oVTB

in case of burn the mind if you play it as battle action - bowing is an effect of ranged attack, but combining happens earlier in interrupt window. by combining you just increase value of attack

So if call the Inferno is the initiator, the combining happens before the bonus effect of call the inferno?

Making call the Inferno a RA 8

You mean if you have 2 copies in same units, announce one and interupt with another?

Fire shugenja cast call the Inferno. Combines with burn the mind. Ra 8. Target personality with followers. Kill.

a) you announce ra from call and target op card b) in interrupt window you interrupt with ra from burn and increase ra by 4 c) attack from call resolves with strength of 8

Ah ok

And it just takes the ra strength of burn the mind, not the bonus effect?

cards are there

But if we target a card without attachment like follower, you may combine them.

and what about the effect on burn that it bows instead of killing?

And in my opinion "bonus effect" don't carry over from interrupt attack

So in case above burn just increase ranged attack from call, but bowing effect is ignored. But if you announce main RA from burn, even if you increase it as interrupt by 4 from call it will bow cards instead destroying it.

@Brook Cunningham Ah, just noticed that Hinosai edited his post. Earlier it wasnt about shooting through followers

No, in this case, interrupt also must be able to shoot through followers. So as @Brook Cunningham wrote above, it is illegal.

PS. I answered earlier without noticing you edited your post.

So you'd need multiple copies of Inferno or something like Steal the Candle's Flame which is an actual interrupt that add strength to MA or RA

I am bit confused now. I think it doesnt carry if ist and effect as played as Interrupt, but i think it is applied if it's in base attack ability.

Well, I'm with kempy based on how I read the rules. I'm taking it from the Comprehensive 20F pdf but it's more or less the same wording from the actual Ivory rulebook too

Because the part we pointed out before I think was "each of those action's relevant attack effect adds its own strength(with any modifications) to the strength of the original attack

to be onest a part {with any modifications) implies ANY modyfications

and bopwing instead kiling counts in (i feel)

it means modifications only to the strength

its not stated

something like Melee 4 but 5 if Shadowlands

it says any modyfications and this is indeed a modyfication...

it's from 20F advanced rulebook

and modifications are only about strength

Characteristics would be things like bowing instead of destroying

or if it's compared against Chi

that's how I understood it at least

yep wit this it looks like it doesent go throught, but indeed it's a tricky rulling with this one ;D

meant this modyfication/characteristic? that it bows instead killing

It would be a characteristic from the combining RA and not the original

@Brook Cunningham a player in ToH Legacy, as there's Event phase, cards are revealed up simultaneously as in Ivory or one by one, from left to right, as in previous arcs?

One by one, but we shortcut it by revealing all

and resolve left to right

But what about events that eg conditionally (you may) destroy right province as an effect. Is it fair to see faceup card before decision?

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=832 🙂

If I don't run those events I don't have to worry about it 😂

If that kind of event flips, we usually stop flipping and resolve first before continuing.

I rarely see those kinds of events used. I think I was the only one who used Harsh Choices.

I think New Order was also used for a time by the Scorp.

New Order and Alter History are the usual honor meta events found in CE

And [War of Dark Fire] but, that one is a window

Wait. It says one card from hand instead of focus pool. So thats why it is allowed to focus 4 cards?

Yeah.

They should be more explicit in saying that if you have no cards in your focus pool (as in you couldn't draw any from your deck or ran out part-way through), and no cards left in your hand, you're forced to strike, too.

CE comprehensive rules are more detailed in this case https://imgur.com/qbQhunE

It can be again!

i want to be sure of how works [Lost Port]

will it for example straighten in my dynasty if I will play [Reccuring Nightmare]?

because it will straighten in case of STRATEGIES and it will not work for Items or Followers.

Action on a strategy, you paid for the Open on RN which is based on the item cost (I'm at least assuming the asterisked gold icon being before the colon means it's the cost for the action)

CR -> GAME MECHANICS # PAYING GOLD COSTS #

Yes. Also if you play any action on Strategy with gold cost during your op turn, it will straighten during his Dynasty phase.

I can't recall - does Akodo Kakihara's reaction save him from a ranged 4 attack?

Yes, as the bonus is applied upon targeting, before the effects of the RA occur

ok, ill specify the date of this ruling to avoid confusion

or delete it when yaehiko's wording is changed

Items don't provide bonuses, only increase/decrease stats by modifiers. so +1f token on item increases item's modifier

thanks, thought so, but wanted to check

Togashi Mitsu and The Mantis Samurai.

Oracle MRP says only about removing tokens while trying to straighten during his controller's Straighten Phase. But this ruling says nothing about this.

So would TMS remove a token from Mitsu during opponent's Straighten Phase?

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=4822

https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=8555

ah, i've found it in 1997 FAQ, so probably Oracle wording should be changed.

does Akodo Kobi can React to her own death after Battle Action (i doubt it but i got there many more "rules Guys" so let the wiser one says)

iirc she'd be dead by the time she's allowed to do her reaction which would mean she can't

but I'll wait for @Brook Cunningham and @kempy_nezumi judgement ;p

true true, i just remember that there's no rule of presence for reactions in CE, but there is the rule of being in play when they can use their ability (unless otherwise stated)

Thanks for the clarification. It's been a while since Celestial

McBeth confirming Kobi being to save every lion except herself somehow also reminded me of that Darth Plageius meme

maybe I should use that as a mnemonic for her. She is the Darth Plageius of the Lion 😆

cough HAIL HYDRA cough

Since dueling comes from either the top of the deck or the hand...if I name a number and my opponent tries to focus from the top of their deck with that number, what happens to the focused card?

Pretty sure they owe you a dollar

either way its a strong blade for the duels

How we DO "that" in SnM?

Yes, you can mark card in op hand like any other card in play

Ya was just playing Agasha Hinosai and we both had Akodo's Guidence in play and we werent sure what happens.

https://tenor.com/view/come-on-man-battle-for-supremacy-funny-gif-13891060

lol...

Can RA be combined in CE? I font remember and feeling a bit lazy to look it up

No

i.e. is there an Events Phase and they happen automatically or do they effectively all say "limited: [x]"

Read Oracle text of any pre Ivory Event.

OBH has still Events phase

oh there it is yep somehow my eyes skipped it when looking for it

i dont mind Mitsu being a kami 😄

yeah that would be bothersome

Of COURSE i had to 😀 i'm an honor runner after all.

Seriously though the work you put into it is amazing and is appreciated

Question is what is the duration of the F bonus.

Only while he's in an army, and only while by himself.

So after combat resolution, when all Units return home, the bonus disappears.

Nope.

Because he's no longer in an army. Also, all bonuses, period, last until end of turn, unless otherwise specified.

So no matter what, it would go away at the end of the turn, even if it were possible for him to somehow be in an army by himself.

It's a really fun card, tho'.

Ran it out of Lion with the 1st turn Cav dude.

Crab also ran it.

Adding the other Hero-protection cards, and it was nasty.

Yeah. It's not just bonuses/penalties, but also effects, are until-end-of-turn-unless-otherwise-specified.

awesome, thanks

i thought i seen somewhere a similar thing, so [Tamori Takeshi] Open action also works til the end of turn?

Nope.

The Charter is not in play, so its text doesn't trigger.

Correct, thank you.

Also, even if it was impacted, you wouldn't know how to fetch it from your deck without seeing the other cards to move it to the discard pile.

no no it would be just a dead Card like [Mirumoto Bokusui] like i pay for a guy and he goes to discard straight if my opponent have a ring /i thoufgt something like that might happen/

Back when those cards existed, yes.

There were no Interrupts.

Just reactions.

It would get almost MtG-like at some points: "Sneak Attack!" "FoYK!" "I'll FoYK your FoYK!"

No.

Interrupt Window happens after action (Open, Limited, Battle, Engage) is announced and target is chosen, but before action's resolution. I suggest to check 20F (Twenty Festivals) Comprehensive Rules for more detailed information.

Reaction just may be used to to react to any trigger described in their text. As MRP of Sun is Interrupt it can't be negated by FoYK as it cancels only Reactions.

20F CR are in Dropbox -> Ivory Twenty Festivals folder

As example of Interrupt.

Player A: Announces Unholy Strike and targets Player's B Personality for Melee Attack

Interrupt Window opens Player A: plays Interrupt from another copy of Unholy Strike, and increases MA by 2 Player B: The Sun Returns Player A: pass Player B: pass Interrupt Window closes

Plater B: his action

@kempy_nezumi

I believe the Proclaim Interrupt should create a delayed effect which, after the Personality enters play, gives you Honor = its (then) PH.

So, what he just said.

Among other things, this means that if the Personality somehow fails to enter play, then as Gene Wilder once said, you get nothing!