https://youtu.be/h-7mrfLQF_4?t=4678 There's a Power of Strength announced. How it could work with Sansesuke? Can he choose what's targeted first?
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Sun and Moon #rules-questions
Messages from the Sun and Moon #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
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I'd rather you asked these questions in the Oracle of the Void server 🙂
The effects of Power of Strength mention a "first target", so its player must declare which is the "first target".
If either of those is a Shugenja, Sansesuke can step in.
Normally, the targeting requirements of Ranged Attack are that it's a Personality without Followers, or a Follower, but that's ignored for Power of Strength.
The last sentence would be better worded as, "Ranged Attack with strength equal to the first target's Force, against the second target, if it is a legal target."
Or maybe, "If the second target is a legal target of a Ranged Attack, make a Ranged Attack against it with strength equal to the first target's Force."
Versus: "Ranged Attack with strength equal to the first target's Force, which may only target the other Personality (if legal)."
Thanks. But Since you and Brook are also here, there's no difference. And i think here are more actually playing players than in Oracle server.
Also if i read correctly Sanesuke can't redirect bowing effect as announcing player may choose any target.
The text refers to the "first target" and "the other Personality".
The player of Power Strength must declare which is "the first target" when he announces the targets of the action.
Ok but action doesnt say which first or second are going to be bowed.
Are you trying to make me errata the card to say, "Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality with 7 or higher base Force and target a first enemy Personality and a second enemy Personality, each with unit Gold Cost lower than your performer's Gold Cost: Bow the first target. If the second target is a legal target of a Ranged Attack, make a Ranged Attack against it with strength equal to the first target's Force." ?
No.
Because it will be radical change in cards text
You kind of are, because that's how the card works.
Order of targeting is for ranged attack oy
Only
So as it says now is good card to fizzle redirection effects
Order of RA maybe changed after targeting.
But when action resolves active player may bow target of his choice.
I agree with Kempy, blame the cards wording if it isn't to design intent
I think we need to consult @Brook Cunningham
And even with actual woriding you may ranged force of straight guy into bowed one
And its fine
Most of time you play this card to destroy and bow two targets but sometimes this may fizzle redirecting.
And it makes card interesting.
Do you have the EE and/or Ivory comprehensive rules anywhere?
They are in Dropbox. But EE is packed.
And im on my phone so cant unzip and check it.
"first target" has an obvious implied reference to the bowed personality, following English language rules.
First target is because you have to set order for RA effect.
And its determined in constraints block, between ":".
The relevant text is this:
C. Required targeting
At this step, an action’s required targets from its constraints block must be chosen, in the order the targets are mentioned. EXCEPTION: Two or more targets are chosen simultaneously if they are grouped together by a number (such as, “target two Holdings.”)
Generally, simultaneous targets like this would be treated exactly the same, and the player would get to make choice of any effects that only apply to one of them during the effect resolution step.
However... The effects block refers to "the first target"
So, yes, I guess I'm slightly wrong.
But it refers first target for RA only.
But you must state when choosing the targets which is "the first target".
You can then bow either of them.
Yes. That what i thought. So thats why yojimbo may mess witg ranged attacks (choosing himelf as first target) but player may still bow another Personality.
So you could bow the second target, and then make a Ranged Attack against it with strength equal to the first target's Force.
But I don't think that's designer intent.
I think my rewording above better fits designer intent.
We will never know whats designers intent as we dont know who designed this one.
As i said i always played it to bow one to destroy another
But, here's better wording again:
Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality with 7 or higher base Force and consecutively target two enemy Personalities, each with unit Gold Cost lower than your performer's Gold Cost: Bow the first target. If the second target is a legal target of a Ranged Attack, make a Ranged Attack against it with strength equal to the first target's Force."
But now i watched this game and this question arrived.
Or maybe "sequentially target" ?
Maybe its clear now. But now card is less interesting and much simplier.
I like tricky cards. 🙂
Hm.
My favorite use of PoS was kill one Nikaru with another one. 😄
Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality with 7 or higher base Force and consecutively target two enemy Personalities, each with unit Gold Cost lower than your performer's Gold Cost: Bow the first target. If legal, make a Ranged Attack against the second target with strength equal to the first target's Force.
Its nerfed. Im voting to keep it as it says now. It will be used this tricky way 1 per 100 games but there will be place for surprise.
Anyway i need to dig throug AEG forum to check if there was any question about this one and redirection
Will do it later.
Ok, i'm on pc now. And found it. It seems you ruled it that bow was "first target" https://imgur.com/wGAhxcY
Yay, precedent!
Lol
may 22 means its early EE, CR could be edited later as in archive theres final version from late emperor
You think something changed? Targeting Rules? :/
also found this https://imgur.com/a/j4V1QF2
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especially second part aboud KK effects and PoS:
In the case of Power of Strength under Koshin Keep this would translate into: Power of Strength + Koshin Keep wrote: Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality with 7 or higher base Force and target two enemy Personalities, each with unit Gold Cost lower than your performer's Gold Cost: Bow one of them. <If the other target is a Personality without Followers and its force is equal or less than the first target's force>, destroy it. <If this did not destroy it,> reduce the target's Force by <the first target's force> and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card.
"Bow one of them. <If the other target is a Personality without Followers and its force is equal or less than the first target's force>, "
someone may check some entries here if something happened. i don't have time now to dig throug it http://web.archive.org/web/20120905195559/http://rules.l5r.com/Comprehensive_Rules_for_Emperor_Edition
final edit for this page was: "This page was last modified on 20 March 2013, at 18:20."
hmm, but provbably it means main page as CR contains changes of dual bugged EE/IvE changes (events engage)
i know i made winhtttrack copy after ip was sold so its 100% final version for EE
lol
Looks like I'm overruled by 11 year younger self...
Given that there was 2 days between the question being asked and my response, I'm guessing we spent a good chunk of that discussing it.
[Cessation of Hostilities]= a.) Can I have multiple in play (won't discard each other)? b.) Can I have x2-x3 "trigger all at once" to give x2-3 sincerity tokens to x1 thing without sincerity token?
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Answers on: Cessation of Hostilities
Yes and yes
Hello is Zenathaar considered to have the Warrior keyword?
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And are the Half-Naga cards considered to have the Naga Keywords?
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Zenathaar would be a Warrior in a game format that used the Foo Rule.
However, Half-Naga would not be, since it's hyphenated, so treated as one "block".
That card would be Half-Naga.
pretty sure that was changed by the time this card was printed
No.
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