Can i announce this ability at last province battlefield?
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Sun and Moon #rules-questions
Messages from the Sun and Moon #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
Hmmm, good question! Does a battlefield still exist if it's already been resolved?
I remember asking this exact question once upon a time, and I'm now really sorry that I don't remember the answer.
I believe it did originally
No, I remember there was a strategy of resolving battles with no units for arcane reasons
Maybe that’s what I’m thinking of
Battlefields exist until end of Battle Phase. My question is, if i can use this abiility if there's only one Province remaining (other are destroyed).
There’s no adjacent battlefields
It's an effect, after semicolon, not requirement. I'm wondering if its effect is just skipped or just whole action stops now (i think not, but i need to confirm).
Anyway you can always send a unit to resolved battlefield if action allows it, but since Diamond (?) there's "no second battle rule" - so as attacker you cant send unit that was in battle resolution to other battlefield. it's still possible for defender (defending unit can be in every battle resolution during same attack phase).
I'm 99% sure it allows to give Poison token when there's no adjacent battlefield. But it's still this 1% of doubt 😄
Yes, the movement effect will fail because there's nowhere to go, but the Poison token effect still happens and isn't dependent upon him moving.
Is there a comprehensive [Modern] Deckbuilding rules? I found the 2014 Sparks PDF-from-the-old-fourms but, I remember finding a more comprehensive one.
More specifically:
- Are "cards that break deckbuilding" still able to be used? - Which rules/Printing of Rings are being used? 20F?
This PDF from forum post is the recent one. As it was edited for the las time in August 2015. AEG also put Modern and BigDeck rulesets into their last Floor Rules. Both are in Dropbox (link in (link) ) under Alternate Formats / Legacy / Modern and Tournament folders.
Modern is just a Twenty Festivals ruleset + tweaks for older card types. mechanics and syntaxes.
About your questions:
"1. Both the Dynasty and Fate decks must be exactly 50 cards each! There are some exceptions to this rule: Cards that do not count towards your minimum deck size (e.g. Stone of Remembrance) will result in your Dynasty and/or Fate deck being greater than 50 cards. Cards that increase or decrease your minimum deck size (e.g. Coastal Lane or Hato-gurama) will result in your Dynasty and/or Fate deck being more or less than 50 cards."
"There are some cards that state in their card text that you may run additional copies in your deck (e.g. Shout Of Defiance). Normally, the cardinal rule allows for a card's text to override game rules. In these cases, the Modern Format Rules override the card text, and you are still restricted to running only 1 copy of each card."
Modern uses texts of most recent printing of every legal card including Rings (just like in Twenty Festivals).
what about "you may include x5 copies of [ this card]"? does that break the "Highlander"/"you may bring only x1 card" format?
ah you just edited, to answer this question ❤️
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When playing him from Ninjutsu is it required to discard three cards? Ninhutsy from Shiro no Soshi of course
Finished comparing Imperial rules to Jade rules, here are the differences I found. Let me know if this is accurate.
One-Time Events (Imperial: No, Jade: Yes) Starting Player (Imperial: cut deck, highest FV; Jade: highest Honor) Bowed Items have no effect (Imperial: Yes, Jade: No) Can Target Your Bowed Personalities (Imperial: ???, Jade: No) Card types (Jade added: Region, Ancestor, Kiho) Ancestors are followers (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) Bow to Attach Ancestor (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) Battle resolution; gain honor for tokens (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes for followers) "Mantis" is "Yoritomo’s Alliance" (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) "Monk" is "Brotherhood of Shinsei" (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) Fortifications Enter Play Unbowed (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) Must Bow To Cast Spells (Imperial: No?, Jade: Yes) Honor Gain in Battle Resolution (Imperial: Individual, Jade: Lump Sum)
Are you sure imperial is not one time events
It's from late Imperial SCC rulebook, so it probably appeared as optional-rule earlier but it was mandatory during tourneys. There's no such paragraph in first Imperial rulebook.
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yeah I just checked the original Imperial Edition rulebook, didn't reference the SCC rulebook
question is when during Imperial block it was introduced
that's a good question
i'm pretty sure it was fairly early
I wonder how valuable it would be to hunt down when rules differences were introduced
also we were doing SH honor + FV fairly early as well for starting
yeah, I think the Jade rulebook declares that as the general rule but then in the "tournament rules" says that it's just highest honor
we were doing that long before jade
actually here are the sections (Jade):
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"bowed items have no effect" ?
expound?
let me double check that
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^ Imperial
I think that was changed pretty soon on as well.
or clarified.
looks like that rule isn't in the SCC rulebook
any solution is to check every rulebook, one by one - imperial -> shadowlands -> fk and so on
yeah
I don't recall rules changing like that (expansion to expansion) while I was playing (Gold through Ivory)
and the imperial rulebook itself is probably not all that useful for most of the arc... there was so much that was disseminated through l5r-ccg listserv
No, the rules had stabilised a lot by Gold.
there was a good bit of change in imperial arc... by gold it was stable
They'd stabilised a lot by Pearl, really, which was when I started.
After that, most changes were when new base sets released.
they were actually pretty stable by jade.
alright, maybe I'll look at the rulebooks between Imperial to Jade as well then
the SCC rulebook is a better reference for how imperial was actually played than imperial rulebook
might be pretty hard to find those rulebooks though
I think I have the Shadowlands rulebook
I have a box of em somewhere.
Or eg KYoD, when the constraints block was introduced.
Or was that Dawn of the Empire?
that was like.. diamond era though
Yeah.
I just mean, it was a fairly significant rules change that came in halfway through an arc.
In any case... don't compare imperial rulebook to jade, compare SCC rulebook to Jade
SCC represents the rules that were pretty much used in the arc.
the imperial rulebook itself was a "first try" and doesn't represent the arc well.
constraints block?
I'd like to just find all the clan wars rulebooks and do a comparison
but talking about some of the things:
if anybody can upload rulebook scans, that would be great
one-time events: pretty sure that was active under tournaments within 1 yr (I started playing 1 yr in when emerald came out)
starting player: same
bowed items: it's a wording thing... i think they always intended for the force/chi bonuses to stay but nothing else
because the "item actually modifies the personality"
it confused a lot of people, so jade was more explicit
card types: those were added individually in different sets through the imperial arc
in Dropbox i also put some old FAQ - you may eg check FAQs compiled during Imperial or later. many have dates of entries for specific cards/interactions. they are in /various folder
ancestors: also added through the arc
(they were followers from inception)
bow to attach ancestor: always from inception
The rules for Ancestors in Pearl were odd.
They were sort of Followers, and sort of weren't.
honor from tokens: that was indeed a jade change
you can also check faqs/answers in old imperial heralds 😄
mantis/monk: again added during the arc
fortifications: it seems like they always came in unbowed, but my memory is fuzzy on this
when they were added were they equal to YA and BoS?
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definitionally, yes.
gotcha
same with Ninja later on
bowing to cast spells has always been a thing
remember there was no once per turn rule... so if you didn't bow something, you'd be able to infinitely use things
it isn't explicit in the IE rulebook
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it didn't have to be
all spells had the wording
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spells gave the ability to the shugenja.. so that still reads the same
caster still bowed
hmm
I'm pretty sure that how it was anyway... that was like 3 lifetimes ago though
looks like that was clarified later in OE/EE
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there were many spells during my time that just said "Bow" and it referred to the spell, not the personality
yep.. that was a change later.
but it looks like there are two spells from IE that say "Bow", while all the other spells say "Bow this shugenja"
One issue I had playing in later arcs is I could never forget the imperial/jade rules.... so i was constantly confused sometimes
yeah.. it was probably a ruling or somesuch, but bow the shugenja was still the intent...
seems like spells and items both gave the personality the ability?
I'm pretty clear in my mind on all the rules between Diamond and Emperor, I came in halfway through Gold and left halfway through Ivory so those I'm not so clear on
is there a rule somewhere that covers that?
maybe you confused it with kihos? they required to bow shugenja or monk
kempy: possibly, but I don't think so?
I was running tournaments at 3 different stores weekly during imperial & jade arcs.... those sorts of questions came up almost every single event.
so there's a lot there that just became ingrained knowledge
there was a set of "tournament" rules to that was handed out to TO's that pretty much most people played by most of the time too.
they might have had specific clarifications.
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SCC P16
Imperial
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so I guess it changed somewhere between IE and SCC
alright, I'm going to start digging through my stuff for the following rulebooks: - SL - FK - EE - BoBP - AoD - C&J - OE - TotV - SCC1 - SCC2 - SCC3
FK didn't have rulebooks because it was boosters-only.
Not sure if "changed" is the right word. "clarified because the wording in the rules was crappy" might be better.
Yeah. Clarified is good.
sure
which is why using the SCC rulebook as the imperial reference is the only sane thing to do.
hopefully most of these were cleared up in SL
probably. I just remember i started like.. the day emerald hit the shelves, and the experienced guys were all like: "buy this imperial deck, you want the sword.. but throw the rulebook away, use the emerald one because it's a ton better"
Nah. SL was the second set after Imperial. Not much got cleaned up.
Around Obsidian it's better.
emerald/obsidian had better improvements.
Though SCC3 would be the best printing from Clan Wars.
they spent time specifically in obsidian to expand on some things, and gave the rulebook a bigger footprint to put more stuff in
Realistically, look to the Jade and Pearl ones, because very little changed functionally, beyond introducing Extended Jade / Strict Jade. The rest were little clean-ups, but no major changes.
can't target own bowed personalities was a change
lots of rulings of "you can't do that.. because it'd be broken" before that, lol
Man that added so much to the gameplay, though.
gaining honor from follower tokens
Like, it mattered if you bowed your people or not.
those are the two from the list Kisho posted that actually were real changes.
everything else was wording and/or the card type or faction didn't exist in imperial.
There were many things you couldn't do with bowed personalities in imperial... they just generalized better in jade
but i clearly remember ambushing people with my bowed dude in imperial
(then dueling them, lol)
cheesy stuff that made the other person want to table flip really
Yeah. It was there for a reason.
I wasn't a fan of the change to being able to target your bowed peeps.
Then again, as a control player, that made my life harder.
okay, so that's a "yes" that you could target bowed guys in IE
Yeah, but it quickly changed.
Through most of Clan Wars and Jade you couldn't.
it changed by jade definitely.
yeah.. it's in the scc rulebook as disallowed
it looks like the fortifications in IE didn't matter if they were bowed or not
yeah.. maybe check the TOV rulebook... a bunch of neat forts got added then because of the crab SH
I think the unbowed forts was a change sometime in the arc when it made a difference.
Sounds about right.
these are the fortifications it would matter for:
The Kakita Palisades (FK) Pitch and Fire (AoD) The Bronze Gong of the Hantei (AoD) Watchtower (AoD) Bridged Pass (C&J) Forest of Thorns (C&J) Tunnel System (C&J) South Wall of Otosan Uchi (SCC1) Bayushi's Labyrinth (SCC3)
so maybe EE rulebook has something
are we pretty confident that between Jade through Spirit Wars, rules were static?
Well. Not static. But... MRPs and errata was rampant, sometimes redefining how rules worked, if that makes sense.
yeah, I'm not referring to that
that happened all throughout L5R's history
_nods sagely._
I think you can normally consider that rules in general were fairly consistent throughout one Arc.
Just remember that the imperial rule book was the absolute first one they did, so it had a lot of stuff that was unclear at best.
So the last rule book from each Arc should be the one that is used as a reference.