Messages from the Oracle of the Void #rules Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
Question:
A player with 40 honor was able to remove a personality targeted by Shoju sensei from the game during his turn. The personality will enter play again at the start of the 40 honor player's turn.
Will the 40 honor player determine which effect triggers first at the start of their turn? Will the 40 honor player win via honor victory?
"While that Personality remains in play" is not a duration that turns off and on again. As soon as the Personality is removed, he is no longer in play, and Shoju Sensei's effect ends. The end.
Thanks.
"While" + "Remains". Got it.
Does Shibata sensei's trait also apply to abilities on Winds?
Yes. Those are Favor actions.
Follow up question. I'm assuming Shibata's trait works similarly to West Hub Village?
Right. And Hidden Catacombs of the Scorpion, et al.
Thank you.
And the Gozoku sensei loves them all 😂
Can a strategy bow or target a follower to fulfill its requirements?
so can i play:
by bowing this guy:
Yes. You may bow any card with Monk or Shugenja keyword. It could be even a Monk or Shugenja Holding if theres any.
thanks Kempy, was 99.5% sure but wanted to be sure 100%
Dearest lord the arguments kiho and any card that "bowed target Ninja" caused.
Did the Ninja thing get worse when it became more of a common keyword?
Like, I remember Night Medallion being good only for very specific cards early on (Kolat Master, Ninja Assassin) or very odd meta strategies (Bayushi Aramoro)
But then when the PoS came out, I have to imagine those old Foo Ninja cards just got weird
I think the crux of the disconnect was that there was a period (and I forget which period exactly; I think sometime between Gold and Lotus, possibly all of that timeframe) where a backend Rule existed that Followers could not cast Kiho. Which in turn brought into question eligibility in general.
Really? I thought they could.
Did I make that up in my head? Pretty sure it existed for some period, and that period was definitely not Jade (see Cultists).
Also, pretty sure that period wasn't SE or later when Kiho stopped being their own thing. Could've been, though.
You need to check the Diamond rulebook, I guess - and if it's there, you need to reword all (or most of) the Diamond legal Kihos, as they just say "Monk" or "Shugenja".
Yeah, I can add that to the list if I ever find it. The Oracle currently exists in two states representing two different mindsets of priorities depending on when I was working on it (either full preservation of old function, or some concessions to "current" Rules; obviously, I've moved more to the former post IP sale). One day I may finish making it uniform.
Personally, I think you need at least two sets of wordings.
"Contemporary" and "Latest"
"Contemporary" meaning wording according the to rules at the time.
Question: I have a personality with 4F/2C a +1F token and a +2F/+1C weapon
and he's hit with her ability
do the bonuses from the force token and weapon still apply or is the dude a simple 2F/2C now?
iirc, "Set" is applied after everything else. So, with all those bonuses, they'd be 6F/3C, and after Nenkai's Set they'd be 3F/3C.
Now... I'm not sure what happens if the weapon is then destroyed. My suspicion would be that the Set would still put them at 3F, but they'd be 2C. But it could just as easily be 1F/2C, and perhaps I'm just wrong on how that whole thing works.
I did use Doji Nenkai quite liberally during CE and EE.
hmm that's a bit counterintuitive
It's possible I might be conflating it with the rules I learned in FFG L5R. I probably should have just let someone who knows more answer this question...
I definitely remember people saying that Nenkai's "Set" ability was extremely powerful.
seems so
i'm checking comprehensive rules as well (a tough read)
so if setting a stat to value gives that stat a bonus or penalty then her ability is nullified by Breaking the Rhythm?
much appreciated bro
I might have been thinking of this card
XD
this is from the Emerald Legacy database. So, different game. And quite a bit harder to overcome it would seem.
apologies for the confusion
np at all, we'll see what are other opinions on this
To "set" a stat to a value, you calculate that bonus or penalty you need to apply, and apply it.
So, if someone has 6F, and you have to set their Force to 3, you give them -3F.
So the personality would be 4F/2C + 1F + +2F/+1C + -3F, for 3F/3C
Destroy the weapon, and they're 4F/2C + 1F + -3F, for 1F/2C.
thank you!
Can this card target a follower and move his unit along him if the personality is not a Monk nor a Shugenja?
Yep. Note that if the unit is bowed, it will only straighten the Monk/Shugenja Follower.
Thanks
I am bringing out my Clan Wars cards, and plan to introduce some friends to the game as it was at the end of that arc, focusing on the rules as of the Obsidian Edition (the other rulebooks are too small for me to read comfortably anymore). I am trying to remember how to handle/explain the playing of non-unique named personalities. If I have 3 copies of Hida Unari in my deck, am I able to have more than one copy of him in play at the same time? How about other players, can they also have their own multiple copies out? That doesn't make sense to me now, but I can't remember how that was played, and I haven't found a specific mention of this in the rules so far.
Non-unique cards have no play restrictions. 3 can be in your deck, all 3 can potentially enter play at the same time.
Why no print SCC rulebook in bigger size? SCC one in DropBox is like 16 A4 pages.
What DropBox are you referring to?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vsabdrqgcqfqepp/AACNYaigHIRNTZvZVRq9K0joa?dl=0
Oh, thanks!
So what is the logic there? Does the Hida Unari card represent a "type" of Samurai, not really a specific individual? I suppose that would explain how you could have a few copies of a personality in play, as well as one of the Experienced versions at the same time...
Really, CCG play can't logistically be 1 for 1 story simulation, so one can't rationalize every aspect of it as such.
That's how it was explained to me when I started. That Hida Unari is a common type of crab samurai
From 1997 AEG FAQ:
Ok, one can rationalize every aspect of it, but I find it's easier not to. 😛 Gotta agree that non-unique Personality cards with generic titles, as described in the FAQ, would be awfully bland, though. 😉
I can agree from experience. "Minbari Aide" was a useful character, but not an inspiring one.
though
In this case, it's the art that falls short, failing to depict the verb that's right on the card. 😉
if i play a strategy with discipline can it be used again on the same turn from graveyard via discipline?
No. All abilities are "once per turn" by default, and cards retain memory of the game state unless they go face-down and out of play at the same time. The discard pile is out of play, but the cards are face-up. So, it will "remember" that its ability has already been used once that turn.
thanks, i was 99% sure but wanted to be sure sure
I should mention, an exception would be if the Strategy in question has "Discipline" and more than one ability. You could use one ability, then Discipline the other ability from the discard on the same turn. 🙂
makes sense 🙂
i feel like for the past two weeks 95% of rules questions are from me
but after YEARS of nagging i got most of my playgroup to finally play the game and now they are flooding me with rules questions 🙂
Oh, no worries. That's what I'm here for. 🙂 The compensation isn't what it was, but I can't stop if I tried. 😛
There is a card we made in the Onyx expansion Rise of Jigoku for which this is relevant; it has a built-in way to give the card Discipline (which lasts until end of turn), and two different abilities for which it may be used on that same turn.
i like a lot of designs in Onyx
Question: My opponent plays Tactical Assault during battle targeting my personality. I react with Flee the Darkness to cancel it. In response, he plays Fall on Your Knees. Can I still react to Tactical Assault or has the reaction window closed?
I assume you mean "Assault" not "Advantage" in sentence 4? It rather depends on what you want to React with. Another copy of Flee the Darkness, perhaps? That would be fine; the window hasn't closed. The Fall happened "inside" the Flee (in a way), so the game hasn't moved past Flee's trigger-point yet.
Thanks. I'm assuming the Emperor Edition CR had the rules on reaction windows?
Possibly? I mean, there's pretty much no difference at all between resolving a Reaction and resolving a triggered trait, except the former is an action and voluntary, the latter is not. Additionally, being voluntary and actions means they're taken in a back and forth (or around the table) manner, whereas traits with all the same trigger would all resolve (mostly) in an order determined by the active player.
Looking at the old Clan Wars era rules, still. I can't recall what happens if a Fate deck runs out of cards. There is no re-use of the Fate discard pile in this game, is there? I was looking for a specific mention of this in the rules, but do not see one. Running out of Dynasty deck cards is covered quite well in the rules.
Nothing happens if your deck is out of cards. You just don't draw.
Important to note that the Obi's limited prevents its own Reaction. I had a long argument about that once.
Like the Honor rule.
Which I hated with a passion
(Edited for clarity. :P )
I'm curious what the argument for it not preventing the reaction would be.
That even though the card created a state, the card specifically overrides that state. They were using the "cards can overwrite the rules" argument.
"cards can overwrite the rules" is a golden rule of card games
I think MtG got around it by giving their states Emblems when they change a fundamental game function.
It is, but when a card modifies the overall state, another card isn't contesting the rules, it's contesting the current game state.]\
Right that's a card overriding another card not a rule. Cards can override the rules always implies the rule book rules
But interesting manipulation of that logic
Although that exact wording would have a billion possible arguments all by itself. :P (That example had way too many arguments, so I removed it. :)
I mean, and i realize this is a completely unhinged statement, but in reality whats legal is whatever you can convince the head ruling authority at the time is legal, i.e. the T.O. for a tournament.
Troll answer now out of my system, did the rules of the time not have the "may not" clause?
While true that TO should say, that doesn't mean the rules should go completely off the rails. Otherwise, they should put up a sign that says, "L5R Tournament [House Rules We Aren't Telling You]" :P
I know "may not" reaches back to Time of the Void, so yes.
When the rulings were still happening over an l5r email list, I convinced the designers to allow my abuse of the foo rule. I was using "scout" in a Naga deck, and would be able to drop a night battle or deadly ground before the battle at every single province.
It took many years before they declared that stuff to only apply to cards self-referentially.
How dare you abuse the sanctity of Foo!
:barochu:
Of course I didn't depend on convincing the TO. I came with a printout from Jeff Alexander.
And I pissed off a hell of a lot of people at that tournament.
I saw that backfire once at Kokomo Comics. Guy used Siren's Call / Fog at a MtG tourney, and they said it wouldn't do anything. He showed the actual article in Duelist saying how cool it was. They got pissed.
Not fog. Something else.
What was it
Holy day?
But those were the same people who got mad at Lure + Rampage or Lure + Deathtouch, so meh to them
Ahhh... Well... Smaller group, we all knew each other. Yeah some of them were upset, but at the same time creds.
The problem was, I couldn't do 12 provinces at once, and the finals at that place they liked to run as a multiplayer.
So I sat down at the final table, three on one.
That sounds like a fantastic way to punish someone doing really, really well. XD
I still took out two of them and had the last one down to one province when he honored out
I would consider that a victory, honestly.
Like, almost a fluke that he managed to hit the race with a turn to go, basically.
I think the only time I won that multiplayer (because I was not exactly a local there, so they usually ganged up on me), was the first taka tricks deck. By all accounts none of the Kansas City guys could remember anyone else playing it before I did, and I was playing it before the stronghold that gave it a boost.
In all fairness considering I almost always got second starting out playing three on one, them ganging up on me was probably reasonable.
But as I recall by the third turn I had all of their honor negative, because I was running a full set of clan swords with free scrubs to attach them to.
when the rulings were still happening by mailing list, I asked a question about Garrison that literally got it MRP'ed to work the way I had asked about
(back in the day when "bringing a unit into the battle" was always Absent by default)