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Is Tireless Assault's ability really just Battle and not Absent Battle?
Oracle of the Void #rules
Messages from the Oracle of the Void #rules Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
I think its overlooked @Brook Cunningham and should be absent like eg unwavering assault
i'm 99% sure it worked this way but need to check. i can use this ability even if i don't have any follower attached to send opposing personality without any follower attached as well.
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Yep, that's how it worked/s.
I didn't fully convert all the Strategies from Emperor to 20F. You can tell Tireless is still Emepror in the Oracle because it has a constraints block (interior colon).
Just to clarify, in determining whether your current army has more than twice your opponent's army's force, you still count bowed personalities? I remember somewhere that in counting an army's force outside resolution, you count all personalities' force even if bowed.
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Under 20F Rules, yes, bowed only matters during Resolution. I'm pretty sure, though, in most Rulesets before 20F, checking an army's Force didn't count bowed cards at any time (and, in fact, back in Crushing Attack's legality days, bowing a unit's Personality meant the Followers didn't count either). Previous ruleset stuff is from memory, and I can't quite recall when things changed; it's too early my time to do the research legwork. 😛
I know for certain it didn't in Celestial edition - that's why Final Duty plus Kami Unleashed were so powerful together in SPC
Answers on: Final Duty, Kami Unleashed
Army force is a force of all unbowed Personalities and unbowed Followers.
Again, not in 20F (from final CR): "The total Force of a unit or army outside of battle resolution counts all cards in that unit or army, bowed and unbowed. In battle resolution, bowed Personalities and Followers do not contribute to an army’s total Force; bowed Items give their Force modifer directly to the Personality, who then contributes or not depending on whether he is bowed."
Yeah, IvE/20F feels like it was designed to break most old cards, so people would only play with the new stuff. It's annoying.
Crushing Attack was super huge back in the day. Same with Deadly Ground.
It was so big in Unicorn, because you had the separate Cavalry phase after Infantry phase.
Hated defending against them with Crane or Lion, because Sneak/Crush was a very real risk.
@Brook Cunningham That's not what it was supposed to be.
After Reese changed the rules so that the force of a unit counted the Personality and Followers' forces, bowed or unbowed, the force of an army was still supposed to what you would count in Battle Resolution.
When I have the time, I'm going to try to compile all the rules questions here just like what I did for the Obsidian Hand FB rule group. I just need to know: 1. whose response will be the "official" one; and 2. who can check which answers are still "good"?
I'm thinking the doc can be subdivided into 2 main categories: rules questions and card clarifications.
oh yeah. and someone to make a decent layout of the doc. me no layout artist.
Did Roger/we mess it up in the CR? I vaguely recall discussing this change amongst ourselves, but not so strongly that I disagree with your statement. :/
Theres question in Fortres of the Forgotten group about Jurojins Touch original printing. Someone thinks that original "may not return to play or have an effect on play by any means" affects all delayed or ongoing effects of card just discarded or in discard pile if played as Limited. Oracle wording just removes card from game.
[Fortress of the Forgotten | Facebook]
I hope that helps!
point 1 definitely clarifies the timing of the reaction part of the card. however, this might give off mix signals considering the card also has a Limited action meanwhile, i personally found point 2 a bit confusing (just came off work so my brain is mush at best). on the top of my head i think the mix up stems from the effect OLOA brings to the table (Until the game ends). initially thought this was an ongoing effect, but it looks like a permanent effect instead.
side question: do cards referring to ongoing effects have any interaction with permanent effects?
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after a few more reading on point 2 and the printed wording, it's starting to clear up in my head now. so the printed wording was just superfluous and doesn't really deal w/ ongoing effects?
It doesn't stop ongoing effects of the action taken using the card's ability.
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Can Utemaro give the -2 gold cost token to a personality in a province?
No. You cant target cards out of play unless card overrides this restriction. Cards in Provinces are in out of play area.
If you bow a naval card, are you required to play 2 battle actions or can you pass your 2nd one? For example, you only have 1 card left in your hand.
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You can pass.
You can use its ability and even pass twice in a row, just like back in the day with Mushin.
thanks.
Hey, need clarification regarding interrupt and card memory
scenario: player A: used the Repeatable Absent Battle action of Dark Path of Shadow player B: uses the Interrupt action of the Ring of Earth (MRP) negating movement from the action
does the modification done by the interrupt persist throughout the turn (while card memory remains)?
Thanks in advance!
Answers on: Ring of Earth
I would say no. At least that's how it was ruled back in the day.
You could DPoS over and over regardless of being cancelled or similar. The only thing that eventually got around it was a straight up negation like Winter Warfare, or adding a cost to the action, vis a vis Storms of War.
Repeatable allows to use same ability any times per turn. And every use of such ability creates separate effect. I believe that Interrupt affects only one instance of Repeatable ability.
We must separate "battle action" from "ability".
The Interrupt only affects the action it interrupts. It has no effect on the ability which created the action.
(And I realise that the term "ability" wasn't used when DPoS was printed - confusingly "action" could mean either the text on the card or the game procedure generated from it - but the principle that these things were different existed then.)
Thanks! Guess the confusion did stem from DPoS Battle Action vs its Battle Ability