What if there are more than 1 terrains in play?
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Onyx Lives #rules-questions
Messages from the Onyx Lives #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
when can you have more than 1 Terrain in play at a time?
When a terrain being destroyed is negated.
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Part of that effect is putting the terrain in play as well
So the 2nd terrain never would enter play
Suuuure...
huh, my quick look at the rules doesn't say "only 1 terrain my be in play at one time".
I mean, can one "not destroy an enemy terrain" and play their own terrain? so on and so forth?? @Brook Cunningham
It says "if able" typically
"if able" means what then, according to the rules?
If you can, you must
im either missing something or 20f---> never had "limit 1 terrain" written in rules?
This cards existence implies that multiples was viable.
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So... lets say that Motetsu is being used in a legacy game... his deal says "your terrain" singular... but if you have multiples in play...
Will OBH suddenly recognize Onyx Lives! Cards?
So far the answer to that is no
If you have more than 1 Terrain in play, each of them is "your Terrain", so they each get the trait.
That would be my bet, but I figured "your terrains" would have made it just better wording.
Sometimes the wording is better suited for the current environment, rather than the overall. It's a case by case sort of call.
I mean, I was trying to make it a viable question for the current environment, but a player crushed my secret sauce
lol
Nyahahahaha
lol
Quick question about variable production-
if I have a holding that, as printed, produces 2g, and it has a +1g Wealth token on it, what is its non-variable production?
I.e. Does variable production include tokens, or is it referring to cards like Mystic Dojo that produces more gold under certain circumstances?
Answers on: Mystic Dojo
Variable refers to having no set or base value, but the value is entirely dependent on another factor, and is usually represented by an asterisk absent of other numbers, such as the GP of Artisan Academy or Bandit Hideout. Mystic Dojo, or Holdings with Wealth tokens, do not have variable production. They have a known base production with bonuses.
So if a card checks my example 2g+1 wealth holding for its non-variable production, it sees 3?
For instance, it wouldn't see a 5 for Jade Works, right?
Just a 3 (assuming no wealth tokens etc)
Depends on the wording of the card looking, I would say? Specific example?
lets use Radiant bay, just a simple 2 for 2 holding with 1 Wealth token on it
Yes, but what's the looking card/effect?
Specifically I was looking at Yoritomo Saika
Answers on: Yoritomo Saika
but I was trying to ask in such a way to give me a better understanding of what Variable meant overall
Aha, gotcha. So, as described above, variable versus non-variable GP isn't something a Holding can have partially or sometimes. Either Saika can't interact with it at all (if Artisan Academy was a Port, hypothetically), or she can. Jade Works's GP (to use BBlade's example) isn't both non-variable (3GP base) and variable (+2GP while paying for a Jade Card); it's always considered non-variable, because its base is not wholly dependendent on another factor, only its bonus.
So, if Jade Works was a Port (and Saika didn't have a cap to her bonus), she would still only get +3F from it, not 5, because its bonus is only temporary and conditional upon while/during paying for a Jade card. A card with a Wealth token, however, has a continuous bonus to its GP, so if you had a 1GP port with a +1GP Wealth token on it, Saika's bonus would be +2F.
This card gives your non-unique personalities in and out of play singular and -HR. What happens if you recruit a character that then generates multiple personalities? Is singular only a recruitment thing? also, what does -HR mean?
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It means they have no honor requirement, as in they have a "-" where the HR would be on a personality. Recruit is a specific word, so created personalities are not recruited unless otherwise shown
Oh... it has "-" HR, got it. and you mean Singular rather than recruit right?
This is a very wordy sensei, but I think having it say "have no HR" would better be understood. because if they have an HR of 6 or something, and then someone reads -HR... that could get a little confusing (as you can see.)
"- HR" is a defined term, there's no reason not to use it
Clarity is always better... -HR could be a mistype... maybe it means -3, maybe it means it has - their current HR, which makes it 0, 0 is different from "-". Just seeing it say "-HR" looks off and weird to me personally.
If it said "your non-unique personalities have no honor requirement" that fixes the confusion
or you may ignore HR for your non-unique personalities.
The other issue for clarity, if we leave it as is, is that it doesn't say it replaces their current HR with "-" so, then you get into a weird area of it having both it's printed HR and the -HR... I dunno... I just think it could be worded better.
"-HR could be a mistype" is a non argument. You can say that about anything. I concur that "- HR" is an established term that we don't need to add words to an already wordy card to explain further
Get outta here with that dismissive BS "it's a non-argument" lol silly
no, im serious- thats not a great stance. Next you could argue that "Hida so-and-so shouldn't have 5 force, thats a mistype."
The card says your personalitys in and out of play have Singular and - HR. Thats pretty clear cut, yeah?
also your example of it maybe meaning -3....bear in mind that "-3 HR" and "3 less HR" are two wildly different things
Obviously not, please read my above comments as to why it's confusing.
Also, if someone has 5 force, they have 5 force... unless they are severely under costed, nobody is going to assume it's a misprint.
But seeing "-HR" made me want to clarify it. Maybe they meant to put -3HR in which case, the card works differently.
The intent is just to make it where you ignore their HR, so... write it that way.
So i was looking at examples to bolster my argument, and to be completely transparent I found an Onyx and EP sensei that support your claim more than mine, (one referencing giving -1 HR per dead person). That said, the correct wording would be "your non-unique personalities have Singular and an HR of -", but I still don't agree that it really needs to be changed
Right because you are looking at it from your point of view. I have a different brain lol.
Either way, I know the intent
so I will now move forward knowing the ruling.
I am sorry you found "- HR" confusing. It is a standard thing that appears on many cards, though not in this exact context. We had not considered the possibility anyone would be confused by what "has - HR" would mean.
I assure you there is no typo, and if there were, would would have issued a correction for something like that by this time.
"and you may ignore their Honor Requirements" simply took up far too much room on the card. I hope this has been clarifying, and if anyone else expresses similar confusion over what "Has - HR" means, then we will be happy to clarify it in a post.
To reiterate, "Has - HR" means their Honor Requirement is "-"
“- HR” is a change in the stat on a card. Instead of whatever number there is, the Sensei replaces it with”-“
It doesn't say it replaces it though, it just says it has it...so it simultaneously has its printed HR and "-"
but anyway, back to the created personalities, they have singular, but enter at the same time, so what happens?
bruh
Can you give a specific example of a personality you are referring to?
Kitsune Toson
Answers on: Kitsune Toson
or
So we can be on the same page
I think creates cards are considered unnamed
<Kitsu Hayako
Answers on: Kitsu Hayako
Created cards are unnamed
ah ok
They won't gain Singular
Or rather, they'll have it, but it won't do anything because they have no names to compare against only having 1 in play.
It's easier to think of it like this
Toson makes several namesless Rams, not several copies of Todd the Ram
Yeah, I got it, them being nameless fixes the problem
when you look at the proxy ancestor, it has "lion ancestor" at the top, so I didn't even consider it not having a name lol
Yeah. That guys name isn't literally "Lion Ancestor"
right
Proxies aren't actually respresentative of what the token's called
But you can't just leave the title bar blank
I get it, I just want's thinking that they were nameless lol
I know when I tried to argue back in the day that the Spider Ninja Sensei's title bar should be blank
Argue in the sense that I sugegsted it during the design process and got "nah, dog, this ain't it"
🙂
lol
So as for the HR issue, you are right in one aspect and wrong in the other. the wrong first- when a card gives something "your personalities have a base force of 3 this battle" for example, it overwrites/replaces. the Sensei would replace the HR.
You are right, however, in the wording. Via the precedents of Bukita sensei (-5HR), Hideyo sensei (conditional -5HR) and Rani sensei (-1 HR per dead), [Dangai's] wording would suggest a modifier on the existing HR not replacing it. As stated, the replacement wording would be "an HR of -"
That said however, as you previously pointed out, the sensei is already very wordy. Are we really going to ask them to alter it when the intent is still clear to most?
I will always argue for clarity and transparency, it's their decision to change it if they can/want to. I am just glad I know what their intent is, so I can play using that moving forward!
This card grants the sincerity token and a trait, but it doesn't say it's permanent, so would you only get the follower on the turn you use it?
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no, he follower is permanent
not the follower
I mean the trait
yes
they only keep it for the turn
ok thanks
weird that characters that dont have the sincerity ability would maintain the sincerity token but ok
"uh, i forgot.... who's favor did i have?"
How do these 2 card's interract?
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Nitoshis gift says that THEY destroy the card
so do I as the player using nitoshi's have to discard 2 cards? or do they have to discard 2 cards? or... how does this work?
If you use Nitoshi's Gift on another player's Personality, and they are forced to destroy that Peronality due to the effects of Gift, if the Edict is in play and hasn't triggered yet that turn, you will have to discard 2 cards or the destruction will be negated.
but I am not the one destroying it, they are
It's still your card effect.
ok, thanks.
I don't agree with that, but thanks.
I would say that "sac" effects should probably be tooled to work like mtg's... destroying your own stuff isn't going to allow for destroy negation.
If it was a cost, I'd agree with you. Everything here is an effect.
Its an effect that causes them to sac it... that's the thing... for instance in mtg, if I use a card that says my opponent sacs a creature with the highest strength, they can't negate it's destruction, they can negate the spell... but not the saccing.
I see this the same way... "you can go to a battlefield, but if you do you have to sac something"
which is the entire point of the card
Yes, I know that this is not mtg, but it's a relavent comparison.
Disagree, the "they must" part, only means that the controller of the personality that assigns/moves in gets to decide which card to destroy, not the Nitoshi's Gift player. Doesn't add a cost to doing so
Disagree. They must indicates they are the ones doing it.
Answers on: Overwhelm
I would say from my point of view, if you want it worded in the way you are suggesting, that if the target wants to be at a battlefield, the COST is that they have to destroy a card in the unit without attachments... which is the whole point of the card... it's a deterrent to going to battlefields. But ultimately it's their choice.
Does Lamentation negate Overwhelm too?
If Overwhelmed's player doesn't discard two cards, yep.
Kharmic Lamentation: Can I choose when it works, or does it just work on the first destruction effect each turn?
Answers on: Kharmic Lamentation
You don't get to choose.
Thanks, that makes sense otherwise it would be totally broken. I would have expected it to be worded "before the first time each turn..." but I suppose it still works with the current wording.