Messages from the Onyx Lives #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
I think I understand this right, but the token part is required targeting for this, correct?
Correct.
it seems somewhat limited and reliant on meta - is this just Dragon hate (b/c of all the Fire / sake tokens over there?)
(or are there proliferations of tokens elsewhere that a Shadowlands / Maho deck might feel this is worth playing [in Emperor Arc]?)
Hello everyone.
I have a few questions regarding oblivious scout. can you use Rout to target a unit equipped with oblivious scout? Does targeting a unit counts as targeting a follower? What does it mean by ‘The enemy leader targets this follower with a battle action’? Is the enemy leader the opposing player or is it the opposing personality?
Thanks!
Shattered Empire printing of Rout does not target the unit, it explicitly targets the Personality. So, no, you can't play Rout as it doesn't target the Scout. And the "leader" refers to players; the Attacker or Defender; "enemy" of those 2 would be the one who is not you you (in a 2 player game).
Thank you!
Are all Naga Akasha?
Akasha Alignment is signified by the Mon in the title box. If you're asking about pre-Ivory cards, then I would say yes, in the same way Yoritomo's Alliance keyword was equivalent to Mantis. However, that said, I don't believe Obsidian Hand Legacy has officially integrated unprinted sets yet.
By keyword, no, since there are some half-human half-naga that as a result have the Naga keyword. Purely non-human Naga Personalities which are legal in Onyx/ShE are all Akasha (as far as I'm aware)
Indeed. To clarify mine and Marcus's replies, ONLY the title box Mon (or effects) convey Clan Alignment. No keywords do post Ivory.
Can someone please explain ‘The Line must be drawn here’. Since it’s a tactical interrupt, is it only useable by tacticians?
From the Onyx Rules Datasheet supplement, the definition of "Tactical": "Each Tactician may use one Tactical ability per turn. You must target your unbowed Tactician to use a Tactical ability not printed on their card." So, the implicit required targeting of any Tactical ability not on a Tactician is an unbowed Tactician who has not used a Tactical ability already that turn.
Hate that it's not explicit
Thank you!
Does Kisada's Funeral only have legacy if you use Kano's Alliance?
Correct
Thank you!
Does [CHuda Ruri] get the "[mishime sensei] cost reduction for maho actions"?
her maho action isn't a "cost"?
@Brook Cunningham
That Gold payment isn't a cost.
Q: can I still use the cycle rulebook action after putting events in play in the 1st turn?
Yes
In Onyx there is no events phase, so you can proc all your events then cycle to flip them
Just make sure to double check that the events get put into play as an open, several of the stronger ones are Dynasty actions to put into play (Kisada's Funeral exp, Commanding Favor, etc)
Is legacy an anytime passive? I can just discard a card from hand to search my dynasty deck for a legacy card?
What does face up in hand mean?
Does your sensei or wind count towards your 40/40 or are they separate like your stronghold?
If using a wind, you can no longer bow to take the imperial favor?
Legacy is a once per turn Dynasty action
By default your hand is facedown. Some effects permanently reveal cards in hand (Honesty for example)
Separate
You can still use the rulebook Lobby if you have a Wind
For clarity, when a card is revealed in your hand, becoming face up (as Techno suggested, using Honesty as an example), the card becomes open information and able to be seen by your opponent. It is still in your hand, however, and counts towards your hand size
Ahhh. Got it. What set is honesty? So I can check for reference.
Thank you both for the quick clarifications!
Honesty appears across several sets
Honesty is a keyword, not a card title as an example
A good overview of new mechanics for Onyx can be found in the datasheet, in the Rules Documents folder of our download link on the website
Oh Legacy is not repeatable, that's good to know
nope, so if you need to choose between your legacy holding or your legacy event, you need to pick carefully (also, bear in mind that legacy is no longer "banish a card to search your provinces or Dynasty deck for a Legacy holding and put it into play, paying all costs", it is now instead "banish a card to search your provinces or Dynasty deck for a Legacy card and put it into a province, discarding the card there")
I searched the comprehensive pdf but found no instances of “honesty”
I see cards that have the keyword like “From your Friend”
Do you choose when to reveal it or do you reveal it when drawn?
You'll want to look at the Onyx Rules Datasheet here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18LNXb9oBvRjEEr2hH4zMmIeOUrxmdB77
We don't have an "Onyx Comprehensive Rules" document at this time; what we do have is the last existing version of the 20F Comprehensive Rules, modified by the additional rules and changed rules listed in the Onyx Rules Datasheet.
Ah thank you
Wait, you can still rulebook Lobby if you have a Wind? The Winds stop you from taking the rulebook Favor actions though, right?
Correct. Lobby- you get both. Favor- wind replaces Rulebook
Sucks for non-Wind users since Wind-havers have non-bowing options for taking the Favor
So you can theoretically get the favor twice on your turn if you have a Wind?
Lobbying is still once per turn
Regardless of source
Oh the Wind is still a Lobby action?
Yes, but not by lobbying. You can only lobby once. However, there are other effects that will give you the favor (ivory courtroom, Otomo Suikihime, Crane box, etc)
Yes.
meaning if the stars aligned, and Crane had enough Favor outlets for it, they could theoretically use 9 Favor Actions in one turn. not feasible, likely or good but 9 actions while only Lobbying once.
ohhhhhhhhh, shoot, I think I used ability wrong last time I ran Crane
wait, NVM: I thought the open here was a lobby ability, but it's not.
whoooosh
also: this is a stupid annoying deck to play against
That, sir, is an Emperor Edition SH
Yup. That's what I play most of the time. 😂
Right, but youre in the Onyx server lol
oooops, this is the Onyx Lives! Discord and not the more general one, isn't it
lolololol
helps you play Ring of Super-Air
I kinda want that to be an April Fools card
sometimes TBQH I get confused about the three / four servers out there and I don't actually know which one is which
nods sagely these things happen
Alright, let's count them out, shall we? Assuming somehow all 4 provinces are still there, with Crane SH, 3 provinces with Ivory Courtroom and 1 with Doji Meiji: 1x Lobby, 1x SH Response, 1x "Otomo Suikihime - exp2" 's action to take, 3x "Ivory Courtroom", 3x "Doji Meiji" trait discard (Kharmic into each other, although bonus provinces via "Chrysanthemum Festival" would help), 3x "Nitoshi's Gift" 's Response on Equip, and 3x "Demonstrate Loyalty" 's Open to destroy your own people
That means 15 Favor actions in one turn, 16 if you started the turn with the Favor
In other words, we need more Open Favor actions (aka please bring back "Imperial Summons")
She's called Otomo Suikihime
Use her lol
Was this true in the original Four Winds era also? Just curious
Old winds didn't have a lobby action except for dark heart
Even dark heart had something that just altered the lobby action iirc
Rulebook favor actions didn't exist
Re:Cavalry In rules appendix it says once per turn. Is that for each cav personality or is that like a static effect for each player?
It is an ability granted to the player, and as such, it is once per turn by default.
Did cav used to be different? I played years ago and am wondering if something changed or I’m just misremembering
Yes, it was extensively overhauled in Ivory Edition. There used to be two Assignment segments of combat. Infantry, first Attackers then Defenders, followed by Cavalry, first Attackers then Defenders. As such, all Cavalry Attackers could Assign after Infantry Defenders.
Yep, that’s what I remember. Now it is just a once per turn. Thank you
I’ve lost so many provinces turn two / turn three to Unicorn just cause of pure cavalry attack
(in Emperor and Samurai, TBC)
Yeah a loved playing an early blitz then long game with a province more than opponent. Honor battlemaidens
The fundamental issue with old Cav mechanics is that it was counterintuitive to how most cavalry tactics actually worked, in that it wasn't avoiding all engagements with enemy troops and smashing castles down
That and of course, it was only at its best when it was blatantly abusable
100% — the Ivory-onward rules make a lot better flavor sense
Agreed. Totally unfair at times lol
but all the Unicorn players in my life love to ask how many provinces I’m going to leave open 😂
(it’s my wife, she’s the Unicorn player in my life — she’s cruel 😂)
It also worked as a detriment to Unicorn players in a lot of cases, as it hamstrung the design of all but their most powerful unique Personalities. They tended to be overcosted and undewhelming, except for a few exceptions everyone remembers (probably for not great reasons)
I absolutely see that: once they have their opponent down to three or two provinces, they really struggle to keep up in the middle / endgame
And you often ended up with a situation where the Unicorn could take three unopposed Provinces then fail to seal the sdeal because their people were subpar in actual battles against opposition.
and it’s hard to do the Battle Maiden honor victory thing when you’re fighting empty battlefields!
This may seem anecdotal, but I never used a Unicorn deck to whittle down provinces unless I could do it very early game to slow thier dynasty down. I used the Cavalry trait to take advantage of their Defensive Infantry assignments by deploying my cavalry in the best manner with an en-masse attack. If you were playing unicorn and were gold starved, you were playing unicorn wrong
Can Akodo Eirasu die in one battlefield then come back at another battlefield within the same Attack Phase?