Rules for 24 December 2004

Your Rules for Friday, December 24, 2004

rules question

Talking about some new cards, a friend told me that following the rule applied to Kyofu about not counting as hida kuroda for the purposes of bonuses of the non exp version of hida kuon, Onnotangu's Hand from DotE, was not an obsidian card.

The foo rule says that if a card has in its title or as a bold trait the "foo" word on it, it counts as a foo card, but as i can remember the kyofu ruling, i am not sure if there is some exception about experiended "X" cards. Anyway it would be ridiculous that following that rule, Shosuro ( exp ninja shapeshifter), wont be considered ninja.

There are a few traits that can't be separated such as Faction Titles ("Dragon Clan" does not make you "Dragon" and "Toturi's Army" does not make you "Toturi) and "Clan Champion". The "Soul of" clause traits, hyphenated words, and restriction clauses like, "May only attach to a Ninja" have an exemption under the Keyword Rule. Reserved game terms like "Army," also have exemptions.

Experience levels, however, do not have any such exemption in the Rules that I can dig up. If a card has the "Experienced Hida Kuroda" trait, then it is a "Hida Kuroda" card, though it does not have the title "Hida Kuroda."

Doji Saori - Same Old Tricks Question [RULES]

1. Crane Player has Doji Saori on the table. Doji Saori says "OPEN: Bow Saori: Target a Duelist you control and a Personality another player controls. The Duelist issues the other target an unrefusable challenge. The loser bows and may not straighten until his controller takes an Open action to pay 4 Gold."

2. The Crane Player is also holding in his hand the card Balance in Nothingness which says: "REACTION: Cancel an action or Event targeting one or more of your bowed Personalities."

3. The Crane Player uses Doji Saori's ability and bows Saori. The Crane Player then uses Bonds of Fate to unbow Saori. The Crane Player then announces that he is again going to use Saori's ability and begins to bow Saori.

4. At this point, I stop the Crane Player and play The Same Old Tricks which says "REACTION: Before the second or later time in one turn the same action on a target non-Formation card is used, cancel that action and permanently remove it from that card."

5. The Crane Player reacts with Balance in Nothingness.

I tell the Crane Player that Balance in Nothingness does not work in this case for the following reasons:

a) When you play an action, you follow these steps: i) Announce the action ii) Choose targets iii) Pay Costs iv) Resolve effects.

b) When he announces he is using Saori's action for the second time, I immediately play The Same Old Tricks. Bowing Saori is part of the cost. The Same Old Tricks acts "Before" the action takes place at all ergo before costs are paid. Therefore, by the time we get to the Pay Costs part of the action, The Same Old Tricks has already gone off and cancelled the action. The Crane Player argues that "before" refers to effects and that he gets to pay the cost for the action and this will thus allow Balance in Nothingness to be used.

So, I guess the question is, who is correct?

My initial response to this question asked previously was to key off of the point at which an Action is considered to be "played," - after all costs are paid but before any effects resolve. It says to do so before the Action is considered "used," not before the other player "uses," the Action. However, Mr. Lyvers brings up a good point about Imperial Messenger as well.

I think the real problem is trying to sort out the grammar of using the passive voice (the Action "is taken" rather than, "I take the Action,") along with certain tense variations. I need the Rules Team to help sort this one out.

So this is why my English teachers always hounded me to write in the Active Voice, huh?

That should cover everything for Friday, December 24, 2004. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.